Posted on 01/27/2008 7:56:14 PM PST by Manfred the Wonder Dawg
January 25, 2008
ESV Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
In recent days I have spent time in Lima and Sullana Peru and Mexico City and I have discovered that people by nature are the same. Man has a heart that is inclined to selfishness and idolatry. Sin abounds in the remotest parts of the land because the heart is desperately wicked. Thousands bow before statues of Mary and pray to her hoping for answers. I have seen these people stare hopelessly at Mary icons, Jesus icons, and a host of dead saints who will do nothing for them. I have talked with people who pray to the pope and say that they love him. I talked with one lady who said that she knew that Jesus was the Savior, but she loved the pope. Thousands bow before Santa Muerte (holy death angel) in hopes that she will do whatever they ask her. I have seen people bring money, burning cigarettes, beer, whiskey, chocolate, plants, and flowers to Santa Muerte in hopes of her answers. I have seen these people bowing on their knees on the concrete in the middle of public places to worship their idol. Millions of people come into the Basilica in Mexico City and pay their money, confess their sins, and stare hopelessly at relics in hope that their sins will be pardoned. In America countless thousands are chained to baseball games, football games, material possessions, and whatever else their heart of idols can produce to worship.
My heart has broken in these last weeks because the God of heaven is not honored as he ought to be honored. People worship the things that are created rather than worshiping the Creator. God has been gracious to all mankind and yet mankind has hardened their hearts against a loving God. God brings the rain on the just and unjust. God brings the beautiful sunrises and sunsets upon the just and unjust. God gives good gifts unto all and above all things he has given his Son that those who would believe in him would be saved. However, man has taken the good things of God and perverted them unto idols and turned their attention away from God. I get a feel for Jesus as he overlooked Jerusalem or Paul as he beseeched for God to save Israel. When you accept the reality of the truth of the glory of God is breaks your heart that people would turn away from the great and awesome God of heaven to serve lesser things. Moses was outraged by the golden calf, the prophets passionately preached against idolatry, Jesus was angered that the temple was changed in an idolatrous business, and Paul preached to the idolaters of Mars Hill by telling them of the unknown God.
I arrived back at home wondering how I should respond to all the idolatry that I have beheld in these last three weeks. I wondered how our church here in the states should respond to all of the idolatry in the world. What are the options? First, I suppose we could sit around and hope that people chose to get their life together and stop being idolaters. However, I do not know how that could ever happen apart from them hearing the truth. Second, I suppose we could spend a lifetime studying cultural issues and customs in hope that we could somehow learn to relate to the people of other countries. However, the bible is quite clear that all men are the same. Men are dead in sin, shaped in iniquity, and by nature are the enemies of God. Thirdly, we could pay other people or other agencies to go and do a work for us while we remain comfortably in the states. However, there is no way to insure that there will be doctrinal accuracy or integrity. If we only pay other people to take the gospel we will miss out on all of the benefits of being obedient to the mission of God. Lastly, we could seek where God would have us to do a lasting work and then invest our lives there for the glory of God. The gospel has the power to raise the dead in any culture and we must be willing to take the gospel wherever God would have us take it. It is for sure that our church cannot go to every country and reach every people group, so we must determine where God would have us work and seek to be obedient wherever that is.
It seems that some doors are opening in the Spanish speaking countries below us and perhaps God is beginning to reveal where we are to work. There are some options for work to be partnered with in Peru and there could be a couple of options in Mexico. The need is greater than I can express upon this paper for a biblical gospel to be proclaimed in Peru and Mexico. Oh, that God would glorify his great name in Peru and Mexico by using a small little church in a town that does not exist to proclaim his great gospel amongst a people who desperately need the truth.
I give thanks to the LORD for allowing me the privilege of going to these countries and broadening my horizons. The things that I have seen will be forever engraved upon my heart. I will long remember the pastors that I spent time with in Peru and I will never forget Adolfo who translated for me in Mexico. I will relish the time that I spent with Paul Washer and the others. When I think of church I will forever remember being on top of that mountain in Sullana at that church which had no electricity and no roof. I am convinced that heaven was looking down on that little church on top of that mountain and very few people on earth even know that it exist. Oh, God I pray that the things of this world will continue to grow dim and that God’s people will be caught up in his glorious presence.
Because of the truth: Pastor: J. Randall Easter II Timothy 2:19 "Our God is in heaven and does whatever He pleases."(Ps. 115:3) "He predestined us according to the good pleasure of His will."(Eph. 1:5) Those who have been saved have been saved for His glory and they are being made holy for this is the will of God. Are you being made holy? Spurgeon says, "If your religion does not make you holy it will damn you to hell."
Something "like" what you describe happens every day in this country. However, I don't notice that too many of them hang around until the police arrive. They know full well that what they did will land them in jail, so they bolt. They can lie to themselves all they want about justification, but they also know that our laws stand against them. Therefore, I don't really see a comparison to our presuppositions about faith. I don't think either of us would say that "deep down" we really know we are wrong.
If you assume the Bible is inerrant word of God, than the Bible doesn't have to prove itself, and anyone who questions it is automatically wrong, and blasphemous, and that just may be sufficient 'justification' to be deprived of life.
There's nothing wrong with questioning the Bible. That's exactly what Paul told the Bereans to do, since Paul's teachings became part of the Bible. The Bible can certainly handle any objections raised. (Look at how Jesus handled Thomas' objections. Jesus didn't scold him for having doubts, Jesus just proved it.) The trick is whether the objector will accept a reasonable answer or not. If an objector has already made up his mind, then no reasonable argument will do any good. From there it is all in God's hands.
And, for this [the 23 y.o. journalist] is going to die? All this on presumption of those in power that the Koran is "holy" and "God-breathed" and that anyone questioning it is as good as dead—because to fundamentalist minds questioning the official truth is as good as mocking it?
So we see here a HUGE difference in the Muslim approach and the Reformed approach. Presumably, the Koran would not survive a test of reason, so they need it to be followed without question (to the point of death, as you describe). Our view is that the Bible is ready, willing, able, and even eager to take on all comers. The Bible is the greatest friend of reason. The Koran does not appear to be, so their leaders have to lead based on fear.
***“...understanding little except destruction, with no regard as to consequences.”
Sadly, that bears repeating.***
That is the hand that we are dealt. We cannot allow the Visigoths to sack Rome again. We cannot allow the Saracens to sack Turkey again. If we do not stand against it, who will?
***Intriguing. Hypothetically, what happens to the Reformed if they resist this desire?***
Sometimes, like Jonah, they do resist. Didn’t work for Jonah, won’t work for us, either.
***So therefore, there would be no reason to avoid committing future sins, since they are already forgiven.***
Theoretically, yes. Practically, no. Once you are forgiven, there is a strong desire to do what God wants. Avoiding sin is one of those. We still sin. but we do now have the desire to avoid it, because it doesn’t really make us happy, Obeying God does.
You’re welcome, Kosta. It’s an excellent study. I recommend it highly.
I think it does make a different to ‘the reformed.’ At least to the born again reformed who love Jesus and want to live for Him. I’m not talking about liberal churches, although many of them do good works as well. I can’t really speak for anyone else but bad works will be judged in the end, as will our good works. Only what’s done for HIM will last.
I, too, am appalled at the way republican politics has gone. They’ve become democrat lite, and I’m convinced McCain is being shoved down our throats because they think he’s got integrity and can beat Hill or Obama. I’m not sure if there’s a deeper motive in all this, but the media is sure in on it. Sigh.
That should be an interesting answer.
LOL.
Thank you. Let's pray for victory while were at it. :)
But we need to remember how our establishment betrayed Pat Tillman's patritoism and used his untimely and unjust death at the hands of his own troops as a propaganda tool.
What a great example to take us back to our theological debates. ;0
Why do you think the initial reports about how he died were wrong? I think it is symptomatic of any large centralized hierarchy. Protecting the reputation of the organization becomes more important than the truth. The few individuals who do seek to proclaim the truth are quickly marginalized in order to protect the organization and the bureaucracy, which the organization "can't live without".
I think this perfectly describes how churches that became a part of the state changed. Once that happened the desire to proclaim the truth became secondary to control of the laity. Any who dared to speak up, or sought to reform the church, when they found error were quickly marginalized.
Your choices are sadly limited. That's all you know?
Dear Kosta . . . I think you can provide a better answer than that.
You are plenty forthright about a lot of things. Why so coy about this question?
One that doesn't put greed ahead of the nation. At this moment, we have 13 million illegal aliens in this country because American businesses are willing to hire them as cheap labor, and the government (servants of the poeple!) look the other way. How patriotic is that?
Whatever makes you happy, BD.
I’m afraid our friend Kosta has tossed up a cannard with the whole Muslim issue.
The irony is, of course, that Islam is a works based religon.
Thus when contemplating the cause for religous despotism would the final cause be a belief in direct revelation or would it be a belief that certain actions are meant to serve a purposeful goal.
Clearly the final causation for religous despotism lies in a belief that certain actions (works) will lead to a purposeful end (ie appease the Diety to acheive reward) while belief in direct revelation can only serve as a formal cause.
We saw the same phenomenon with the Romanist inquistion.
A century and a half ago, American capitalism used child labor. Today we recognize it as inhumane and wrong, and we passed laws prohibiting such abomination. Our economic system has become internationalized. Today's capitalism is favoring illegal aliens.
They don't come with immunization records and disease history. They don't even exist on paper! They could be criminals and terrorists among them. Why do American businesses hire such people except out of greed for greater profit?
And why are local, state and federal ogvernments doing absolutely nothing to cut off the supply of jobs ofr these people when laws intended to deal with this situation are already on the books, but no one is enforcing them!?
Instead of cutting off the supply, we want to hire more border patrol agents, and offer those already in the country illegally amnesty. That's patriotic?
Are you saying that attracting illegal aliens is in the interest of this nation while we are losing sons and daughters in Iraq? What good is it to fight them "over there" so we don't have to fight them "over here" if "over here" we could already have them inside the country illegally and our politicians a la McCain are willing to offer them amnesty?
How responsible is that and what are our priorities?
Or simply "doing God's will," which is found in fundametalist Christainity as much as in Islam. There is no greater reward than "knowing" to be the the elect destined to "do the job" as God wishes.
We saw the same phenomenon with the Romanist inquistion
Oh, yeh? How's that?
Why would we, of all nations, stoop down to such level? How can we convince the world we stand for truth and justice if we keep repeating such mistakes?
In 1999, an American jet attacked an unarmed Serbian civilian train on a bridge. NATO briefed reporters about this, and showed footage taken from the missile approaching the train. based on the tape, it looked like the train appeared out of nowhere and the pilot didn't have time to divert the missile (since the target was the bridge, not the train). It all looked legit. Until it leaked out that the footage was played at three times the normal speed.
It turns out the pilot not only saw the train approaching the bridge but waited until the train was on the bridge and then attacked a civilian object (a war crime). After hitting it once, he turned around and hit one more time (double war crime).
Of course, our media did not show the aftermath (because it was too "disturbing"). There were torsos and body parts of innocent passengers scattered all over the ground and in the trees. Even if we believed out cause was just, what that pilot did was not.
The reason the briefing was fixed is because we knew we committed a criminal act and we tried to cover it up by playing the tape at three times the speed. What does that say about credibility? Are we on such thin moral ice that we have to resort to the type of disinformation our worst enemies practiced?
Protecting the reputation of the organization becomes more important than the truth.
Self-protection is "normal." Organizations are 'organisms" of sorts and tend to protect themselves. But that is true of Apostolic Churches and Protestant communities alike. You will find corruption everywhere.
That would be National Socialism.
To then take the offense back, or up, as our own right and duty to have a chip on our shoulder and huffily rant and rave about how horribly we've been wounded . . . when Christ bore it all . . . is AT LEAST More than a little askew of God's priorities for us VIRTUALLY all the time.
Yes, that's right. I was only referring to the Biblical exhortations that all of us be gentle and loving in our own exhortations to others. But God never promised us a rose garden, so we all should be able to roll with the punches.
Yeh we all need to learn more about the Roman Catholic Croatian Ustashi and their operations there in the Balkans under the Nazis and the hundreds of thousands of Serbs that they tortured and slaughtered. Oh but that was done by Catholic Croatians and we have to find fault with those western Protestants, right??? Get over yourself ----
You’re still AVOIDING answering the question, Kosta.
IF your position is worth having . . .
It’s worth being forthright about enough to answer the question.
What do you advocate as a form of government/society?
There aren’t an infinite number of choices, Kosta.
Of course the illegals problem is a serious problem deliberately concocted and perpetuated toward specific goals. BUT ALL THAT IS BESIDE THE POINT OF THE QUESTION. And I suspect that you know that.
What do you advocate as a form of government/society?
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