Posted on 01/11/2008 5:12:12 AM PST by SJackson
terycarl said, “Martin Luther and the protestant revolution have been the cause of more lost souls than any other person/movement in history”
-and-
Amos the Prophet said, “With the exception of the RC church.”
Do both of you really believe that man, any man, any group of men are more powerful than God?
Yoni-in-fatigues-and-a-Che-T-shirt-ping.
Appears you’ve been brain washed by the RCC. No such thing a Roman Catholic until the 4th century. Those people you cite - they are not those whom the Lord spoke Scriptures through. The RCC did everything in its power to keep the Bible away from folks for centuries.
The term Eucharist did not take on the mystical, Gnostic notion currently held by the RCC until the 11th century (by Gilbert of Savardin, Archbishop of Tours) - it meant what evangelicals currently call communion until the RCC perverted it. Can’t find credible (actually, any) evidence that Athanasius held this heretical view of Christ. While he is respected by many as a man of God, that would not make this or any other heresy true, just because he might have held that one view.
So called scraps of the true Scriptures have been gathered over the years and any Bible scholar can show you how the KJV and NASB are 98% or so compliant with the source documents. While apocrypha were included in the publication and binding of Bibles until the 18th century, this was done (except for the RCC) as a means to provide important books to church folk - but they were not (and are not) Scripture.
Anyone who thinks Christ is sacrificed weekly at countless RCCs is deceived. Hebrews 1:1 -3 show that Christ “sat down” after He purged our sins - that signifies “job complete”.
Hebrews 10:1 - 18 states very clearly that Christ was sacrificed ONCE and that’s all that was necessary; because He was worthy to be the Lamb of God.
10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
Below is Hebrews 7:11 - 28, which makes clear that Christ does not get sacrificed time after time.
11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
20 And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:
21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:)
22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people’s: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.
Dear me, I failed to provide a key scripture for you. I ran across it while studying for Sunday. Romans 6:9 & 10 show that Christ died but once and does not die - sacrifice Himself for sin - any more.
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
That’s really good news that anyone who truly loves the Lord and believes in Him should rejoice in - rather than pretending that Jesus is being murdered on account of sin every week in every RCC building.
Take-two-opiates-and-call-me-in-the-mourning-pong.
“”Can’t find credible (actually, any) evidence that Athanasius held this heretical view of Christ.””
Here is what Blessed Athanasius said..
“But after the great and wonderful prayers have been completed, then the bread is become the Body, and the wine the Blood, of our Lord Jesus Christ.”
Saint Athanasius -”Sermon to the Newly Baptized” ante 373 A.D.
No such thing a Roman Catholic until the 4th century.
Assuming you’re still talking about Eucharist?
Here is some of the the writings from the Early Saints before the 4th century. They all believed that the Eucharist became the real Body and Blood of Christ! Every single one of them!
“I have no taste for the food that perishes nor for the pleasures of this life. I want the Bread of God which is the Flesh of Christ, who was the seed of David; and for drink I desire His Blood which is love that cannot be destroyed.”
Saint Igantius-”Letter to the Romans”, paragraph 7, circa 80-110 A.D.
“Since then these things are manifest to us, and we have looked into the depths of the divine knowledge, we ought to do in order all things which the Master commanded us to perform at appointed times. He commanded us to celebrate sacrifices and services, and that it should not be thoughtlessly or disorderly, but at fixed times and hours. He has Himself fixed by His supreme will the places and persons whom He desires for these celebrations, in order that all things may be done piously according to His good pleasure, and be acceptable to His will. So then those who offer their oblations at the appointed seasons are acceptable and blessed, but they follow the laws of the Master and do not sin. For to the high priest his proper ministrations are allotted, and to the priests the proper place has been appointed, and on Levites their proper services have been imposed. The layman is bound by the ordinances for the laity.”
Source: St. Clement, bishop of Rome, 80 A.D., to the Corinthians
You said...
“The term Eucharist did not take on the mystical, Gnostic notion currently held by the RCC until the 11th century”
This is an absolute lie!
Here is what ST. IGNATIUS OF ANTIOCH SAID ...
“Consider how contrary to the mind of God are the heterodox in regard to the grace of God which has come to us. They have no regard for charity, none for the widow, the orphan, the oppressed, none for the man in prison, the hungry or the thirsty. They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not admit that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, the flesh which suffered for our sins and which the Father, in His graciousness, raised from the dead.”
“Letter to the Smyrnaeans”, paragraph 6. circa 80-110 A.D.
You modernists fail to comprehend that God is outside of time .
Here is a repost ( I think I sent it to you by freepmail as well.)
Why do you suppose Scripture puts focus on Bread and Wine?
Genesis 14.17-20, says....
After his return from the defeat of Chedorlaomer and the kings who were with them, the king of Sodom went out to meet him at the Valley of Shaveh, (that is the King’s Valley). And Melchizedek king of Salem brought out BREAD and wine; he was priest of God Most High. And he blessed him and said,
“Blessed be Abram by God Most High,
maker of heaven and earth;
and blessed be God Most High,
who has delivered your enemies into your hand!”
This is the first time in the Bible that anyone is addressed by the word coen, the Hebrew word for priest. As a “priest of God Most High,” Melchizedek “brought out bread and wine.”
What is the connection between his priesthood and those two offerings?
What about this....
Jesus said “Your ancestors ate manna in the wilderness and died...I am the living BREAD that came down from heaven...unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man you will not have life within you.”
Jesus was born in “Bethlehem” which, in Hebrew, literally means “house of Bread”
A manger was not a place where animals stayed. It was a trough where food was put to feed the animals. Mary laid Jesus in a place where food was placed
At the last supper, which was a passover meal, Jesus said “take this and eat it, this is my body.”
“I Am The BREAD of Life”
John 6:48
Scripture says “For indeed Christ our Passover was sacrificed for us. Therefore, let us keep this feast.” (1 Cor 5:7-8) This relates to Exodus 12:1-42. The Passover meal saved from the angel of death who was striking the first born children in Egypt. At a traditional Passover supper, the Jews ate the sacrificial lamb.
Paul is saying that this feast should continue. They don’t think that he was “re-sacrificing” Christ when he kept this feast.
We see the Eucharistic formula throughout Scripture. At table, Jesus takes . . . blesses . . . breaks . . . and gives the bread. He also took a cup of wine; after giving thanks to God, He gave it to His disciples saying, “This is My blood . . . of the [new] covenant.” Matthew 26:26-29; Mark 14:22-25; Luke 22:15-20. This is the same formula Jesus uses during the first Eucharistic celebration after the resurrection when He encountered two disciples on the road to Emmaus (see Luke 24:13-35). When the Corinthians drift from the proper Eucharistic formula, Paul corrects them.(1 Corinthians 11:23-29)
“Give us this day our daily bread.”
Matthew 6:11
This is from the prayer that Jesus taught us, the “Our Father”.
It means in totality, bread as food for our bodies and spiritual bread as food for our souls.
We are to continually offer up a sacrifice of praise to God.
Every day in every place a clean oblation is offered.
What, or who, is the sacrifice and what is a clean oblation?
It is an offering of praise to GOD, in the Holy Eucharist, the Body, and the Precious Blood of Christ. The Catholic Church offers the sacrifice of praise to GOD all over the world, every day in the Mass.
It has replaced the bloody animal sacrifices of the Old Testament.
That is why it is called a clean oblation.
In Matthew 26:26, didn’t Jesus take bread and say, “Take and eat; this is my body”?
And did he not beseech us to say in the Lords Prayer:
“Give us this day out daily bread”, (both physical for the body, and spiritual for the soul).
Matthew 6:11
How many non-Catholic ecclesial communities offer daily sacrifice, a clean oblation, as is clearly commanded for us to do by Holy Scripture? How many do not even offer sacrifice?
“Cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, as you really are unleavened.
For Christ, our paschal lamb, has been sacrificed.”
1Corinthians 5:7
“Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children. And walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.”
Ephesians 5:1-2
“I have received full payment, and more; I am filled, having received from Epaphroditus the gifts you sent, a fragrant offering, a sacrifice acceptable and pleasing to God.”
Philippians 4:18
Jesus Christ is the “food” which sustains the spiritual soul which lives forever. He is the “bread come down from heaven” as we saw in John chapter six.
Can a mere “symbol” sustain the spiritual soul to eternal life?
Since the manna was the type or symbol of the New Testament reality, that question can be answered by another basic rule of typology
“An Old Testament type (symbol) never points to a New Testament symbol, but to a reality.”
So obviously the “food which endures to eternal life” cannot be a symbol, but a New Testament reality. It also cannot be a symbol, for another reason. It would violate yet a second basic rule of typology which we have previously discussed:
“The New Testament reality is far superior to the Old Testament type.”
So does this mean that Christ is sacrificed over and over again in the Eucharistic Celebration?
Again, what does Holy Scripture say?
“For Christ also died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit;”
1Peter 3:18
“The former priests were many in number, because they were prevented by death from continuing in office; but he holds his priesthood permanently, because he continues for ever. Consequently he is able for all time to save those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them. For it was fitting that we should have such a high priest, holy, blameless, unstained, separated from sinners, exalted above the heavens. He has no need, like those high priests, to offer sacrifices daily, first for his own sins and then for those of the people; he did this once for all when he offered up himself.”
Hebrews 7:23-27
Christ was sacrificed only once and for all time. He is both the High Priest and the victim.
Catechism of the Catholic Church # 1366
“The Eucharist is thus a sacrifice because it re-presents (makes present) the sacrifice of the cross, because it is its memorial and because it applies its fruit: (Christ), our Lord and God, was once and for all to offer himself to God the Father by his death on the altar of the cross, to accomplish there an everlasting redemption. But because his priesthood was not to end with his death, at the Last Supper ‘on the night when he was betrayed,’ (he wanted) to leave to his beloved spouse the Church a visible sacrifice (as the nature of man demands) by which the bloody sacrifice which he was to accomplish once for all on the cross would be re-presented, its memory perpetuated until the end of the world, and its salutary power be applied to the forgiveness of the sins we daily commit.
(Council of Trent (1562): DS 1740; cf. 1 Cor 11:23; Heb 7:24,27.)”
We must remember that GOD is outside of time. Time is a measure of change for the things He has created. Since He never changes, He Himself is outside of time.
Consequently, everything from creation, and before, and for all eternity is now with GOD, including the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross. It is a continuous, never ending sacrifice.
How can something that never ends be repeated?
God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.”
And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”
Exodus 3:14
Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”
John 8:58
“And getting into a boat he crossed over and came to his own city. And behold, they brought to him a paralytic, lying on his bed; and when Jesus saw their faith he said to the paralytic, “Take heart, my son; your sins are forgiven.” And behold, some of the scribes said to themselves, “This man is blaspheming.” But Jesus, knowing their thoughts, said, “Why do you think evil in your hearts? For which is easier, to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Rise and walk’? But that you may know that the Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins”—he then said to the paralytic—”Rise, take up your bed and go home.” And he rose and went home. When the crowds saw it, they were afraid, and they glorified God, who had given such authority to men.”
Matthew 9:1-8
These classic verses graphically show the connection between healing of the body and healing of the soul. Jesus first cleansed the paralytic’s soul, and then He cleansed his body. Pay especial attention to the last line. To whom was authority given? Notice that the very last word in the verses is plural.
In summery
1. The body needs physical food in order to survive or else it will die.
2. The spiritual soul needs spiritual food in order to avoid spiritual death, the separation from GOD.
3. Spiritual food cannot be a symbolic gesture, simply because a mere symbol could not possibly feed the spiritual soul. Spiritual food is as much a reality as is physical food. It is the anti type of its Old Testament type of the manna in the desert. Recall that an O.T. type never points to a N.T. symbol.
4. Scripture tells us that there will be offered sacrifice every day in every place, a clean oblation.
How can symbolism of a sacrifice be a sacrifice in itself?
5. The bread come down from heaven, Jesus Christ, is that clean oblation, His sacrifice on the cross.
6. Jesus Christ was sacrificed once on the cross for all eternity.
7. Jesus Christ is both the High Priest and the victim, the Paschal Lamb of sacrifice.
8. Since He is High Priest forever (Heb 7:17), He is also the sacrificial Lamb forever (Rev 5:13-14).
9. Since GOD is outside of time, everything is now with Him. That one sacrifice at Calvary, which is always now for GOD, is made present for us during the Eucharistic celebration of the Mass.
10. The Mass is a re-presentation of that one sacrifice. We are re-presented at Calvary
You also said
“So called scraps of the true Scriptures have been gathered over the years and any Bible scholar can show you how the KJV and NASB are 98% or so compliant with the source documents.”
Prove it?
This is more nonsense. The KJV is filled with errors in translation.The NASB is even worse.
Dear Friend , Please take the time to pray and study the facts.
I wish you a Blessed evening!
Cite the non-RCC source for everything historical you claim, such as your precious 4th century Arthanasius’ belief about the heretical transubstantiation.
Where is the Bible is this recorded: “Scripture tells us that there will be offered sacrifice every day in every place, a clean oblation.”?
If, as you recognize, Christ was sacrificed once for the sin of man (and Scripture that I’ve already cited shows He sat down at the right hand of God the Father afterward), why does the RCC display Him in His moment of humiliation?
Christ is the Lamb of God forever, but He is not sacrificed forever. You just admitted He died one time for all time. Rev 5:13 & 14 do state that He continually dies for us, simply that He is and will be worshiped forever.
Yes, God is not bound by time - yet He described such things as the sacrifice of Christ in the context of time so His creatures might understand it. Hebrews 10 (cited above) shows clearly that, unlike OT priests, Christ needed not to continue to offer sacrifices. One time, in time, for all time.
Since priests are mentioned in Heb 10, why does the RCC claim saints (as the Bible calls Christians) need an earthly priest? And why call that man Father? Both of these fly in the face of God’s Word (cited earlier in this thread).
You say “The Mass is a re-presentation of that one sacrifice. We are re-presented at Calvary.” RCC doctrine that you claim as Truth says Mass and the centerpiece thereof (the Eucharist) are nor a representation, but the very body and blood of Christ. Are you not RCC? And where in Scripture are we told to be represented at Calvary?
From http://www.catholicconcerns.com/Trans.html, some good observations and questions:
When Jesus talked about eating His flesh and drinking His blood, he was using a metaphor (symbolic language). He often did that when He described our relationship with Him. For example, Jesus said,
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.” (John 10:7-9)
But we don’t make special doors that represent Jesus. And we don’t walk through them in order to be saved. And we don’t go into pastures to eat grass like sheep do.
There is another basic problem with the doctrine of transubstantiation. If consecrated bread really did turn into Jesus Christ, then this is what would happen when you took communion. You would eat the consecrated bread. Because of that, Jesus would be inside of you. But only until the bread was digested. Once the bread was gone, then Jesus would also be gone. If you only took communion at Mass on Sundays, then Jesus would be inside of you for a few hours on Sundays. The rest of the time, He would be gone.
This is not what we see in Scripture. Jesus promised to stay with us, to be with us all the time. He said,
“Lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world.” (Matthew 28:20)
“For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” (Matthew 18:20)
Jesus said that a time would come when we would realize that He truly lives in us, and we truly live in Him.
“At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.” (John 14:20)
Jesus told us,
“Abide in me, and I in you.” (John 15:4)
According to “Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary,” the word “abide” means “to stay; to continue in a place; to dwell; sojourn; to remain”.
God sees everything as one NOW ,everything is one event with God.
You know full well that there is no historical pre -reformation “Christain” writings to support your view that the Eucharist is symbolic.
You can only drag up writings from heretics,the reformation was lead by heretics as well.
You have NOTHING to support your view other than your own private interpretations of the Bible.
You deny that Christ has no power to make Himself present in the Eucharist.
Scripture along with the Early Christians is not in your favor on this,like IT or not!
Take a look..
The Old Testament
God Raises His Covenant Children
Jesus introduced the Sacrament of Holy Eucharist. It did not exist during the days of the Old Testament. However, our Father in heaven gradually prepared us to receive it. These Old Testament accounts describe pre-figurations of the Holy Eucharist.
Abel
The earliest shadow of the Sacrament of Christ’s Body and Blood was Abel, the younger son of Adam and Eve. Cain murdered the good shepherd Abel. The Lord told Cain, Gn 4:10 “The voice of your brother’s blood is crying to Me from the ground.” The Book of Hebrews reminds us of, Heb 12:24 “ [Christ’s] sprinkled Blood that speaks more graciously than the blood of Abel.”
Melchizedek
Melchizedek pre-figured Christ. When Abram returned from his victory over Chedorlaomer, Gn 14:18 “Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine; he was priest of God Most High ” to bless Abram, pre-figuring the bread and wine consecrated by a priest at Mass. The Book of Hebrews tells us, Heb 7:2 “[Melchizedek] is first, by translation of his name, king of righteousness, and then he is also king of Salem [shalom], that is, king of peace. He is without father or mother or genealogy, and has neither beginning nor end of life, but resembling the Son of God he continues a priest for ever.”
Moses
Moses, the first Israelite priest, read the Torah to all of the six hundred thousand Israelite people assembled at the foot of Mt. Sinai, and threw the blood of sacrificed oxen on the people, saying Ex 24:8 “Behold the blood of the covenant which the Lord has made with you.” Jesus said at the Last Supper, Mt 26:28 “This is my blood of the covenant.”
Ex 34:29 “When Moses came down from Mount Sinai, with the two tables of the testimony in his hand as he came down from the mountain ... the skin of his face shone because he had been talking with God ... he put a veil on his face.” Jesus comes to us veiled, under the appearance of bread and wine. We could not stand the superbrilliant light of His full glory compared to our own souls darkened by sin.
The Harvest
In ancient Israel, the Spring harvest consisted of grain or wheat. Bread has long been the symbol of the Spring harvest. The Autumn harvest was mostly grapes and olives. Grape wine and olive oil were symbols of the Autumn harvest. Bread and wine. God commanded, Lv 23:12-13 “You shall offer a male lamb a year old without blemish as a burnt offering to the Lord. And the cereal offering with it shall be two tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil and the drink offering with it shall be of wine.” Priests anoint with oil. Torah unites bread and wine, and the priest, with the sacrifice of the lamb.
Tabernacle Sacrifice
Bread of the Presence
The Bread of the Presence, in the ancient Tabernacle and later in the Temple, 1 Kgs 7:48 prefigured Jesus in the Holy Eucharist.
In the Tabernacle God commanded Moses, Ex 25:8 “Let them make me a sanctuary, that I may dwell in their midst.” In the sanctuary, in the ark of the covenant, God told Moses, Ex 25:22 “There I will meet with you, and from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubim that are upon the ark of the testimony, I will speak with you...” God added, Ex 25:30 “You shall set the bread of the Presence on the table before me always.” Jesus told us, Mt 28:20 “I am with you always.”
Abimelech the priest gave David this sacred bread. 1 Sam 21:6 “So the priest gave him the holy bread; for there was no bread there but the bread of the Presence.” Jesus taught us that it was for all His disciples. Mt 12:1 “At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the sabbath; his disciples were hungry, and they began to pluck ears of grain and to eat. ... [Jesus] said to them, ‘Have you not read what David did, when he was hungry, and those who who were with him: how he entered the house of God and ate the bread of the Presence ... I tell you, something greater than the temple is here.”
Jesus showed us what was greater than the Temple. Lk 22:19 “He took bread, and when he had given thanks he broke it and gave it to them, saying, ‘This is my body which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.’”
Blood of the Lamb
During Moses’ time the priests sacrificed in the Tabernacle, a portable house of God in the wilderness. After Solomon built the First Temple, it became the place of sacrifice. The highest form of Hebrew worship was sacrifice, not prayer alone, just as the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is the highest form of Catholic worship. A priest is one who offers sacrifice. The Catholic priest is the counterpart not of the rabbi, but of the ancient Jewish priest who offered bloody sacrifices. The deacon, who reads the Gospel, is the rabbi’s counterpart.
The Old Testament sacrifice of a lamb, as opposed to any other animal, was important. The lamb did not resist, run away, or even cry out. Isaiah had foretold that the Lamb of God would do the same, Is 53:7 “He was oppressed, and he was afflicted yet he opened not his mouth; like a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and like a sheep that before its shearers is dumb, so he opened not his mouth.”
The Jewish priests, before sacrificing the lamb, always asked, “Do you love this lamb?” If the family didn’t love the lamb there would be no sacrifice. Jesus three times asked Peter, Jn 21:15 “Do you love Me?” Jesus allowed Peter to replace his triple denial with a triple affirmation that he did indeed love the Sacrificed Lamb.
The family would place the lamb into the hands of the priest. When we give something to God we place it in His hands. Jesus’ last words on the Cross were, Lk 23:46 “Father, into Thy hands I commit My spirit!”
The priest and the head of the family then prayed together that God would accept the blood of the innocent lamb for the sins of that family for the entire year, just as the Lamb of God shed His Blood to redeem the sins of all His human family. The Catholic priest says, “Pray, brethren, that our sacrifice may be acceptable to God, the almighty Father.”
The head of household then cut the lamb’s throat with a sharp bronze knife while the priest caught the lamb’s blood in a large bronze bowl. The priest then made seven complete trips around the altar, sprinkling the blood from the lamb on each of the four “horns.” Then he took the lamb’s body and placed it on the altar and started the ritual fire. With a big fire and a small lamb, the sacrifice was over quickly. The smoke rose from the altar. If the wind blew the smoke away and dispersed it, the priest told the family that its offer was rejected, and that it should repent and come back the following year. But if the smoke drifted upward, higher and higher until it disappeared from view, the priest told the family that God had accepted the sacrifice.
Before the great tabernacle sacrifice, Jewish priests washed their hands in a bronze laver, or basin. Ps 26:6 “I wash my hands in innocence, and go about Thy altar, O Lord.” Today the Catholic priest washes his hands saying inaudibly, Ps 51:2 “Lord, wash away my iniquity; cleanse me from my sin.”
The first priest attended at a great golden lampstand with seven oil lamps, called a menorah. It was dark in the tabernacle, and the menorah gave light.
The second priest attended at the table of showbread. God had commanded Lv 24:5 that the Jewish priests, from Aaron forward, place twelve loaves of bread on a golden table “before the Lord.” On each sabbath, the priests ate the bread which had been set in place on the preceding sabbath. This bread was to be eaten by the priests in a sacred place since it was Lv 24:9 “most holy” among the offerings to the Lord. God had said, Ex 23:18 “You shall not offer the blood of My sacrifice with leavened bread.” During the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass the Catholic priest consecrates unleavened bread on the altar which becomes Christ’s Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity, and is consumed by the royal priesthood as the most holy offering in the New and Everlasting Covenant.
The third priest served at the altar of incense. It looked like a small altar of sacrifice, with the same four horns. On it was a bronze laver. The priest would take a red-hot burning ember from the fire in which the lamb had been sacrificed, put it in the basin, and pour some incense on it, that his prayers might have a fragrant scent and go straight up to God. On solemn occasions Catholics spread incense about the altar as an act of reverence and purification. The smoke rising to heaven represents our own desire to have our prayers ascend heavenward in God’s sight. Ps 141:2 “Let my prayer be counted as incense before Thee, and the lifting up of my hands as an evening sacrifice.”
God told Moses to place the Torah in the Ark of the Covenant, which in turn was placed within a tabernacle. God commanded, Ex 27:20 “You shall command the people of Israel that they bring to you pure beaten olive oil for the light, that a lamp may be set up to burn continually.” All was placed within the tabernacle. By night, there was always a fire over the tabernacle, Ex 40:38 This began the idea of an eternal lamp beside the Jewish tabernacle. A thousand years later the Temple lamp miraculously continued to shine for eight days with only one day’s supply of oil. Catholics continue this ancient Israelite tradition by placing a lighted candle beside the tabernacle in which the consecrated Hosts repose.
In the center of the tabernacle was a room called the Holy of Holies. Once a year the cohen gadol, the high priest, alone would enter that room. In it was the Ark of the Covenant. Inside the ark were the two stone tablets with the Ten Commandments, a golden bowl of manna, and the five Torah scrolls. The Torah was a witness against the Israelites, Dt 31:26 but above it all was God’s solid gold mercy seat, with a crown and two cherubim kneeling in prayer. Above the mercy seat, between the two cherubim, was a brilliant light, the shining glory of God. Ex 25:22 “From above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubim that are upon the ark of the testimony, I will speak with you.” When the priest saw that light he took a huge cup of blood and sprinkled it until it was empty. Jewish tradition holds that not one drop of the blood of sacrifice ever touched the mercy seat or the cherubim; it all went into the bright light of God’s glory. Jesus said, Jn 8:12 “I am the light of the world.” Jesus’ covenant family gave Him their imperfect sacrifices, and He gave them His perfect sacrifice.
The Todah Sacrifice
The ancient Jews had a special ritual meal called the Todah (Hebrew: thanks) (pronounce: Taw-DAH). Although the Todah sacrificed an animal, it was greater than other animal sacrifices because it added the suffering of one’s own life. David wrote, Ps 40:6,8 “Burnt offering and sin offering Thou hast not required. I delight to do Thy will, O my God; Thy law is within my heart.” Again, David wrote, Ps 51:17 “The sacrifice acceptable to God is a broken spirit.” And again, Ps 69:30 “I will praise the name of God with a song; I will magnify Him with thanksgiving. This will please the Lord more than an ox or a bull with horns and hoofs.” Isaiah spoke the words of God, Is 1:11 “I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams.” God called instead for a baptism: Is 1:16 “Wash yourselves; make yourselves clean; remove the evil of your doings from My eyes; cease to do evil, learn to do good.”
The seventy elders who went up with Moses to see God offered the Todah: Ex 24:11 “They beheld God, and ate and drank.” Twelve centuries later, twelve apostles beheld God, and ate and drank as Jesus prepared to offer His Todah sacrifice: Lk 22:19 “He took bread, and when He had given thanks He broke it ” From the beginning, Christ’s Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity has been called Holy Eucharist (Greek: eucharistia, thanksgiving).
The ancient rabbis believed that when the Messiah would come all sacrifices except the Todah would cease, but the Todah would continue for all eternity. In 70 AD the Temple fell to earth and all of the bloody animal sacrifices stopped. Only the Todah remains, the eucharistia, the Final Sacrifice at which the last words spoken are Todah l’Adonai, “Thanks be to God.”
Passover
Jesus was pre-figured in the original Passover, when God commanded that Moses tell the Israelites, Ex 12:5-6 “Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male the congregation of Israel shall kill their lambs in the evening,” as Jesus the Lamb of God was crucified in dim light. Mt 27:45 God commanded, Ex 12:8 “They shall eat the flesh that night,” and told Moses, Ex 12:12 “I will smite all the first-born in the land of Egypt.” But He promised, Ex 12:13 “The blood shall be a sign for you when I see the blood, I will pass over you.” Most of us know that the original Passover pre-figured the Body and Blood of the crucified Lamb. But there is more to the Passover story.
Pharaoh commanded the death of every Hebrew male infant in Egypt, Ex 1:22 but death passed over Moses. Ex 2:5-10 Twelve centuries later, before Herod commanded the death of every Hebrew male infant in Bethlehem, Mt 2:13 death passed also over Jesus.
The Jewish celebration of Passover has from the beginning been an experience of exile and return, as its participants re-live the experience of the desert and encounter with God. After Jesus was crucified the apostles also experienced a sense of exile in the desert followed by a transforming encounter with God. In this way Jesus is spiritually present in the entire Seder.
The Seder table is different in many ways from the Jewish table setting on all other nights, as the ma nishtano acknowledges. God chose a young Jewish girl, a virgin who lived in Nazareth, to begin the rest of the story. Mary began her own Seder each year as Jews have since time immemorial, by lighting candles to give festive light to the table. Mary also gave us Jesus, the Jn 8:12 light of the world. Jesus has been at every Seder from the first one to this very day, spiritually present in the bread, wine, and lamb.
Bread
Jesus is spiritually present in the bread. It is unleavened, pure as Jesus was pure. It has dark stripes, as His back was striped by Pilate’s scourging. It is pierced, as He was pierced on the Cross. Once it was the bread of life for Israel on the desert, as Jesus is the Jn 6:35 Bread of Life for all mankind. During the Seder, the head of the family takes three pieces of unleavened bread, reminding us of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. He breaks in half the second piece, suggesting the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity crucified. He then wraps one of these two pieces, called the afikomen (Hebrew: festival procession), a reminder of Jesus’ constant call, “Follow Me,” in white linen, reminding us of Jesus linen burial cloth, and “buries” or hides it, as Jesus was entombed. Later the youngest at table “resurrects” or finds the afikomen as Jesus rose from the dead. The head of the family then breaks the afikomen and passes it around for all to eat, as Jesus did when He told His apostles, Lk 22:19 “This is My Body which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of Me.” In that way, Jesus through the Seder calls us to follow Him into His death and resurrection, to become a new person in Christ.
The unleavened bread also reminds us of the haste with which the Israelites left Egypt. The dough that they were sunbaking on the hot rocks of the Egyptian fields was removed before it could leaven, and so remained flat. It represents our need to remain ever alert and prepared for the day when God calls us to our destiny as Jesus told us, Mt 25:13 “Watch, therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour.”
Wine
Jesus is spiritually present in the wine. When the afikomen is broken and passed around for all to eat, Jews drink the third of four cups of wine, called the cup of blessing because it represents the blood of the sacrificed paschal lamb. It is the cup that Jesus gave to His apostles, saying, Lk 22:20 “This cup which is poured out for you is the New Covenant in My Blood.” He did not drink the fourth, the Kalah cup, explaining, Mt 26:29 “I tell you I shall not drink again of this fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.” But later that evening at Gethsemane, Jesus prayed by moonlight, Mt 26:39 “Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from Me.” After He was captured, Jesus asked Peter, Jn 18:11 “Shall I not drink the cup the Father has given Me?” Many Catholics believe that Jesus drank the last cup on the Cross, Jn 19:29 “They put a sponge full of the vinegar on hyssop and held it to His mouth. When Jesus had received the vinegar, He said, ‘It is finished’; and He bowed His head and gave up His spirit.”
Lamb
Pasch or pesach in Hebrew means “he passed over.” The paschal lamb recalls the lamb that was sacrificed that its blood might be daubed on the doorposts of every Jewish home, and its body eaten in every Jewish home, that the angel of death might know it as a household of the faithful and pass over. God had originally commanded Ex 12:6 that the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel kill the paschal lambs. When Solomon built the first Temple, Jewish priests sacrificed the paschal lambs there. But after Jesus ascended to heaven and the second Temple fell never to rise again, the Temple sacrifices could no longer be done, so Jews began to represent the paschal lamb with a lamb’s shank bone.
Jesus is spiritually present in the shank bone of the lamb. The Jews in Egypt ate the paschal lamb to be physically redeemed and led to the promised land of Canaan. Catholics for two thousand years have consumed the Body and Blood of the Lamb of God, Jn 1:29 that we might be spiritually redeemed and find the promised kingdom of heaven.
In the ancient days, when the Jewish priest had killed the last lamb of the Passover, he uttered the Hebrew word Kalah, “it is finished.” Moments before He died on the Cross, Jesus said, Jn 19:30 Kalah (it is finished).
The Exodus
After the Passover, with its pre-figuration of Calvary, the Israelite people began their long exodus from the land of Egypt to the promised land of Canaan. God told Moses, Ex 16:4 “I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a day’s portion every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law or not.” Moses told the Israelites, Ex 16:8 “When the Lord gives you in the evening flesh and in the morning bread to the full ” The “bread from heaven” reminds us of Christ’s words, Jn 6:49 “Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness and they died. This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that a man may eat of it and not die.” The “evening flesh” reminds us of Christ’s sacrifice. Mt 27:45, 50 “Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land until the ninth hour. And Jesus cried again with a loud voice and yielded up his spirit.” The “morning bread” reminds us of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.
The Israelites gathered up the manna, Ex 16:17 “ some more, some less. But when they measured it with an omer, he that gathered much had nothing over, and he that gathered little had no lack; each gathered according to what he could eat.” This reminds us of the Miracle of the Loaves and Fishes, Mt 15:37 “And they all ate and were satisfied.” That miracle pre-figured the Holy Eucharist, from which the smallest piece is a full portion of Christ’s Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity, and which can never run out because Jesus said He would be with us until the end of time. Mt 28:20 As long as a priest lives we Christ’s flock can have all we want.
Elijah
At a time when the land parched from lack of rain, God sent Elijah the Tishbite to the brook Cherith, that is east of the river Jordan, promising, 1 Kgs 17:4 “You shall drink from the brook, and I have commanded the ravens to feed you there.” So Elijah went. 1 Kgs 17:6 “And the ravens brought him bread and meat in the morning, and bread and meat in the evening; and he drank from the brook.”
When the brook dried up God sent Elijah to Zarepath, saying, 1 Kgs 17:9 “Behold, I have commanded a widow there to feed you.” Elijah found the widow and asked her, 1 Kgs 17:10 “Bring me a morsel of bread in your hand.” The widow and her son had virtually no food left and were near starvation. 1 Kgs 17:12 “As the Lord lives,” she said, “I have nothing baked, only a handful of meal in a jar, and a little oil in a cruse; and now, I am gathering a couple of sticks, that I may go in and prepare it for myself and my son, that we may eat it, and die.”
But Elijah told her, 1 Kgs 17:13 “Fear not; go and do as you have said; but first make me a little cake of it and bring it to me, and afterward make for yourself and your son. For thus says the Lord the God of Israel, ‘The jar of meal shall not be spent, and the cruse of oil shall not fail, until the day that the Lord sends rain upon the earth.” The widow did as Elijah said, and she and her son and Elijah ate for many days. 1 Kgs 17:16 “The jar of meal was not spent, neither did the cruse of oil fail, according to the word of the Lord which he spoke by Elijah.”
After that, the woman’s son became ill and died. Elijah carried the woman’s son into the upper room where he had been living and prayed, 1 Kgs 17:21 “Oh Lord my God, let this child’s soul come into him again.” 1 Kgs 17:22 “And the Lord hearkened to the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived.”
The food brought by the ravens reminds us of the manna, which itself pre-figured the Miracle of the Loaves and Fishes. The ravens brought bread, which pre-figured Christ’s Holy Eucharist, and meat, which pre-figured His redemptive sacrifice. The water from the brook which kept Elijah alive pre-figured the living water that flowed from Christ’s side. At Zarepath, Elijah was again fed by a pre-figure of the Miracle of the Loaves and Fishes. The widow pre-figures our Blessed Mother, who was a widow on the day of Christ’s sacrifice. Her son pre-figures Christ, who died and rose from the dead.
In the wilderness Elijah was awakened by an angel’s touch. 1 Kgs 19:6 “There was at his head a cake baked on hot stones and a jar of water.” The cake reminds us of the Holy Eucharist. The water, of the water that Jesus turned to wine at Cana Jn 2:9 and then to the Blood of the Covenant in Jerusalem. Mt 26:27 The angel told Elijah, 1 Kgs 19:7 “Arise and eat, else the journey will be too great for you.” Elijah took this food for his forty days’ journey to Horeb, the mountain of God. Jesus fasted forty days in the wilderness while He was tempted by the devil. Mt 4:1 Lest temptation be too great for us, we receive the Holy Eucharist, food for our pilgrim journey to Calvary, the new and true mountain of God.
Finally, Elijah 2 Kgs 2:11 “was carried up in a whirlwind into the sky,” as Jesus Lk 24:51 “was carried up into heaven.”
Elisha
God performed a miracle through the prophet Elisha. 2 Kgs 4:42 “A man came from Baal-shalishah, bringing the man of God bread of the first fruits, twenty loaves of barley, and fresh ears of grain in his sack. And Elisha said, ‘Give to the men, that they may eat.’ But his servant said, ‘How am I to set this before a hundred men?’ So he repeated, ‘Give them to the men, that they may eat, for thus says the Lord, ‘They shall eat and have some left.’ So he set it before them. And they ate, and had some left, according to the word of the Lord.”
Elisha’s miraculous feeding of a hundred men pre-figured Jesus’ Miracle of the Loaves and Fishes.
The Psalms
Jews two thousand years ago knew the 150 psalms by heart, as we know songs today. They were not numbered; they were identified by their first words. If the first words, or any words, from a psalm were quoted, a Jew would be able to quote the rest of it.
Jesus cry on the Cross, Mt 22:46 “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me,” reminded those present that His sacrifice fulfilled prophecy. Psalm 22 begins, “My God, my God, why has thou forsaken me?” The Jews present on Calvary would have recited from memory the prophetic words, Ps 22:17 “I can count all my bones – they stare and gloat over me; they divide my garments among them, and for my raiment they cast lots.”
The Jews present would have recognized Jesus’ final words on the Cross as a Psalm quotation, Ps 31:5, “Into Thy hand I commit my spirit,” and recited from memory King David’s next words, “Thou hast redeemed me, O Lord, faithful God.” They would have continued reciting the psalm until its final words, “Be strong, and let your heart take courage, all you who wait for the Lord!”
Psalm 23 contains the Eucharistic prophecy, Ps 23:5 “Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of my enemies.” As we eat what God gives us, we will fear no evil but dwell in the house of the Lord forever.
Psalm 78 refers to the manna. Ps 78:24 “[God] rained down upon them manna to eat, and gave them the grain of heaven.”
Ezekiel
God pre-figured the Holy Eucharist through the prophet Ezekiel. Ez 3:3 “’Son of man, eat this scroll that I give you and fill your stomach with it.’ Then I ate it; and it was in my mouth as sweet as honey.” Jesus often used the title, Son of Man, in Matthew 8:20, 12:32, 13:41, 16:27 and 17:9. God had called Ezekiel to eat a figure of the Word of God made flesh.
The New Testament
The Gospels
The New Testament accounts describe the Holy Eucharist as Jesus gave it to us. The term “bread from heaven” becomes fully clear only when we reach the Revelation to John. The Gospels Christ said at Capernaum. Jn 6:51 “I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is My Flesh.”
Jewish life is rich in symbolism. The Seder table is filled with symbolic foods. Jesus said, Mt 26:23 “He who has dipped his hand in the dish with Me, will betray Me.” He referred to the urhatz, the first washing; slaves eat quickly without stopping to wash their hands, but now Jews wash their hands in a bowl of warm water as a symbol of their freedom. The moror, bitter herbs which remind Jews that the Egyptians made their ancestors’ lives bitter with hard labor, are dipped in charoset, a sweet mixture of chopped apples, nuts, and wine, to recall that even hard lives have their sweet moments. The matzo is the bread of haste that the Hebrews ate as they fled from Egypt. The karpas, green vegetables, represent the coming of Spring with its renewal of life, symbolizing the journey from slavery to the promised land; Jews dip them in salt water before eating to recall the tears shed along the way. If Jesus had said the Holy Eucharist was a symbol the Jews at Capernaum would instantly have accepted it.
The Jews knew that He was speaking literally. Jn 6:52 “How can this man give us his Flesh to eat?” On other occasions when our Lord spoke of Himself as a Jn 10:9 “door” or a Jn 15:1 “vine,” nobody said, “How can this man be made of wood?” or “How can this man be a plant?” They recognized these as metaphors. But when Jesus insisted, Jn 6:53 “Unless you eat the Flesh of the Son of man and drink His Blood, you have no life in you; he who eats My Flesh and drinks My Blood has eternal life.” The Jews who heard this said, Jn 6:60 “This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?” They remembered God’s command to Noah and all mankind, Gn 9:4 “Only you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood.” God spoke more forcefully to His chosen people. Lv 17:10 “I will set my face against that person who eats blood, and will cut him off from among his people.” It was only after Christ’s redemptive sacrifice and the Holy Spirit’s enlightenment that the Apostles saw the full meaning of our Father’s next words. Lv 17:11 “For the life of the flesh is in the blood; and I have given it for you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that makes atonement, by reason of the life.” In the Old Covenant our Father in heaven had commanded His children not to eat the blood of animals because we are not to participate in the life of animals. Animals, having no immortal souls, are lower than man in the order of created nature. However, in the New and Everlasting Covenant we consume the Blood of Christ to participate in Christ’s eternal life.
Jesus knew we would need a lot of help to become accustomed to the Holy Eucharist. He performed the Miracle of the Loaves and Fishes in the dim light of the original Passover sacrifice Ex 12:6 and of His Crucifixion. Mt 27:45 He performed the four great Eucharistic actions: He took the bread, blessed it, broke it, and gave it to His apostles to feed the people: Mt 14:15 “When it was evening, the disciples came to him and said, ‘This is a lonely place, and the day is now over; send the crowds away to go into the villages and buy food for themselves.’ Jesus said, ‘They need not go away; you give them something to eat.’ They said to him, ‘We have only five loaves here and two fish.’ And he said, ‘Bring them here to me.’ Then he ordered the crowds to sit down on the grass; and taking the five loaves and the two fish he looked up to heaven, and blessed, and broke and gave the loaves to the disciples, and the disciples gave them to the crowds. And they all ate and were satisfied. And they took up twelve baskets full of the broken pieces left over.”
The three Gospel narratives of the Last Supper are absolutely consistent. Matthew: 26:26 “This is My Body.” 26:27 “This is My Blood ” Mark: 14:22 “This is My Body.” 14:24 “This is My Blood ” Luke: 22:19 “This is My Body.” 22:20 “This is the New Covenant in My Blood.” Jesus’ next words instituted the Catholic priesthood: Lk 22:19 “Do this in remembrance of Me.”
Jesus assured the Apostles that the Holy Eucharist is a reflection of the heavenly banquet. Mt 26:29 “I tell you I shall not drink again of this fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.”
After His resurrection, Jesus walked with two disciples to Emmaus. When they arrived, He celebrated the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass for them; Lk 24:30 “While He was at table with them, He took the bread and blessed, and broke it, and gave it to them.”
Acts of the Apostles
The apostles celebrated the Sacrament of Holy Eucharist. Acts 2:46 “Day by day, attending the Temple together and breaking bread in their homes ”
The Apostles were visibly religious Jews. They wore the kippah (prayer hat), the tallit (prayer shawl with fringes) and the tephillin (phylacteries). Long after Jesus ascended to the Father, Peter protested that he had never in his life eaten anything unkosher. Acts 10:14 When these Jewish Apostles remembered Christ’s command, Lk 22:19 “Do this in remembrance of Me,” they added it to their synagogue worship. They began with synagogue prayer and Scripture readings, and then went to their homes to celebrate the Sacrament of Christ’s Body and Blood. To this very day, the Introductory Rite and Liturgy of the Word come directly from Jewish synagogue worship. The Liturgy of the Eucharist comes directly from the Apostles’ breaking bread in their homes.
At Troas, Paul spoke all night, but he made sure to receive the Holy Eucharist. Acts 20:7 “On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul talked with them, intending to depart on the morrow; and he prolonged his speech until midnight.” Acts 20:11 “And when Paul had gone up and had broken bread and eaten, he conversed with them a long while, until daybreak, and so departed.”
On the Adriatic Sea, at dawn, Paul celebrated Mass for 276 people. Acts 27:35 “...he took bread, and giving thanks to God in the presence of all he broke it and began to eat. Then they all were encouraged and ate some food themselves.”
The Epistles
Acts 20:11 “When Paul had gone up and had broken bread and eaten ” St. Paul explained clearly what “breaking bread” meant. 1 Cor 10:16 “The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not a participation in the Blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the Body of Christ?” St. Paul continued, 1 Cor 11:27 “Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the Body and Blood of the Lord.” St. Paul in these words confirmed Catholic teaching that the “bread of the Lord” is truly Christ’s Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity, and that the “cup of the Lord” is the same substance: “Whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup will be guilty of profaning the Body and Blood of the Lord.”
St. Paul added, 1 Cor 11:29 “For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the Body eats and drinks judgment upon himself.” If we receive the Holy Eucharist without acknowledging, at least in our hearts, that it is His true Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity, we send ourselves to hell.
The Revelation to John
In the beginning God had said of marriage, Gen 2:24 “Therefore a man cleaves to his wife, and they become one flesh.” Jesus assured us, Jn 6:56 “He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.” God prepared us first through natural marriage and then through the Holy Eucharist for the supernatural marriage to come at the end of time, Rev 20:7 “For the marriage of the Lamb has come, and his Bride [the Church] has made herself ready; it was granted her to be clothed in the righteous deeds of the saints.” The Holy Eucharist, through which Christ abides in us and we in Him, will be our wedding feast. Rev 19:9 “Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.”
As John Henry Newman said, “to be deep in history, is to cease to be Protestant.”
Good Night!
I wish you a Blessed evening!
I repeat:
Cite the non-RCC source for everything historical you claim, such as your precious 4th century Arthanasius’ belief about the heretical transubstantiation.
Where is the Bible is this recorded: “Scripture tells us that there will be offered sacrifice every day in every place, a clean oblation.”?
You say “The Mass is a re-presentation of that one sacrifice. We are re-presented at Calvary.” RCC doctrine that you claim as Truth says Mass and the centerpiece thereof (the Eucharist) are nor a representation, but the very body and blood of Christ. Are you not RCC? And where in Scripture are we told to be represented at Calvary?
When Jesus talked about eating His flesh and drinking His blood, he was using a metaphor (symbolic language). He often did that when He described our relationship with Him. For example, Jesus said,
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.” (John 10:7-9)
But we don’t make special doors that represent Jesus. And we don’t walk through them in order to be saved. And we don’t go into pastures to eat grass like sheep do.
There is another basic problem with the doctrine of transubstantiation. If consecrated bread really did turn into Jesus Christ, then this is what would happen when you took communion. You would eat the consecrated bread. Because of that, Jesus would be inside of you. But only until the bread was digested. Once the bread was gone, then Jesus would also be gone. If you only took communion at Mass on Sundays, then Jesus would be inside of you for a few hours on Sundays. The rest of the time, He would be gone.
This is not what we see in Scripture. Jesus promised to stay with us, to be with us all the time. He said,
“Lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world.” (Matthew 28:20)
why does the RCC claim saints (as the Bible calls Christians) need an earthly priest? And why call that man Father? Both of these fly in the face of God’s Word (cited earlier in this thread).
Oh - and why, if the RCC puts stock in the Bible did it spend so much energy for centuries trying to keep it out of the hands of ordinary people?
I do thank you for the civil tone of this discussion and your kind words. I pray the Lord reveal Truth to you and me.
Absolutely...
If so, how is it you trust him with Bible Canon to tell you what scriptures were inspired by God?
I don't
Wrong...It was the blood...And they weren't allowed to drink it...
The people were under the blood...The blood on the doorposts...God didn't 'pass over' the houses that ate the meal...He passed over the houses that were covered in the blood...
GoDeeply.
Read my post.
Stop and think about it.
Then ask your meaningless question again.
I read it.
Stop and think about it.
You implied the RCC can cause people to lose their souls. I disagree, for the same reason I disagreed with terycarl.
I don't believe anyone or any group of men can snatch away a single one of our Lord's lambs from Him.
Religion has circumvented God’s Will and snatched countless souls who might otherwise have found the Lord.
Do you believe that Satan has no ability to claim souls?
When the RCC or any other institution portrays itself as the source of salvation they are condemning their believers to life without Christ. Christ is the only source.
Countless believers today believe they are saved by virtue of church attendance.
The Lord’s lambs are led to slaughter - body, mind and soul - by those who pretend to stand between God and believers.
I agree. I believe, despite that, God has used religions to accomplish that which He wants to be accomplished.
and snatched countless souls who might otherwise have found the Lord.
So much for our Lord finding the one lost sheep missing from His flock.
Do you believe that Satan has no ability to claim souls?
The souls that the Lord allowed him to have, yes.
When the RCC or any other institution portrays itself as the source of salvation they are condemning their believers to life without Christ.
Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
Christ is the only source.
I agree.
Countless believers today believe they are saved by virtue of church attendance.
I don't know of any Christian religion that teaches that, tho there may be some that do. Belief comes from God. It is a work of the Holy Spirit. Those who believe church attendance will save them have not been given eyes to see and ears to hear.
The Lord’s lambs are led to slaughter - body, mind and soul - by those who pretend to stand between God and believers.
I wouldn't call those who allow men to stand between themselves & God "believers". Our Lord's lambs hear & know His voice, so can not be led astray.
When you hear someone say that they've "chosen for Jesus" (or whatever other way that's expressed), is it their choice or is it more like a realization? Ever wonder why some hear the Gospel & believe, while the same Gospel angers others?
Every United Methodist in the U.S. should be up in arms over this. This moron needs to be tossed OUT of the UM.
Dear Friend ,I’m very busy this week, but here is a good place for you to start.
http://www.mb-soft.com/believe/txv/earlychr.htm
When you read what the early Christians write you’re going to find that they were very Catholic,especially believing in the Sacraments.
You also said
“”and why, if the RCC puts stock in the Bible did it spend so much energy for centuries trying to keep it out of the hands of ordinary people?””
From the historical viewpoint you need to realize that there was not many Bible’s around until the invention of the printing press . The Scriptures were read within the Church and its teachings.
I would say that for the first 1400 years that there were not much more then a couple of Bibles per church because everything had to be hand copied and the process took a long time.
Now fast forward to where we are today and the Bible has been hijacked and translation error’s and interpretations are out of control.
Take a look..This is only a few a kept from old research
The battle for the Bible
http://www.worldmag.com/articles/424
Publisher plans gender-neutral version of Bible
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2002/01/28/new-bible.htm
Changing God’s words
http://www.worldmag.com/articles/10357
Rewritten Bible banishes saints
Christian Publisher Zondervan, is a Division of HarperCollins, which Publishes the Satanic Bible
http://truthinheart.com/Zondervan.htm
Dear Friend, this is what happens when you have thousands of denominations with their own agenda in a sin laden world.
I don’t have that problem.
I can read through History and see clear interpretations of scripture backed up by the writings of the Saints and Martyrs.
I ‘ll say a prayer for you in your search.
I wish you a most Blessed day!
Many thanks for referring me to http://www.mb-soft.com/believe/txv/earlychr.htm It looks most interesting and I will spend some time there.
I agree that many of the newest “Bibles” are horrible - amen.
I would like to boil this issue down to a couple of questions of theology:
A.) Why does the RCC teach people to pray to or through Mary, when the Bible teaches there is ONE mediator between man and God, not two? Where does the Bible teach us to pray through or to a dead saint?
B.) Why does the RCC teach that a man can function as a priest when the Bible teaches that we have one high priest who is Jesus? Where does the Bible teach us we have need of a man to finish or supplement the finished work of Christ Jesus?
Mary's intercession goes through, and is dependent upon, the mediation of her Son. She is not some accessory mediator beside Jesus, but a mediator for us to and with Jesus.
In that sense, she is exactly like any other Christian praying for another, only more so.
Where does the Bible teach us to pray through or to a dead saint?
There are no "dead saints". The Bible teaches us that Christ conquered death. 2 Tm 1:10 says that the Lord Jesus has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the Gospel. The Church is the Body of Christ; death no more conquers Christ's Body the Church than it could conquer Christ's Body in the tomb.
Why does the RCC teach that a man can function as a priest when the Bible teaches that we have one high priest who is Jesus?
The Bible says that we are a kingdom of priests. Catholic priests, however, are the order of "presbyter" or "elder" spoken of in the Scriptures. In fact the English word "priest" comes from the Greek "presbyter".
Where does the Bible teach us we have need of a man to finish or supplement the finished work of Christ Jesus?
I'm not sure how you think that applies to Catholicism. However, in terms of a man "finishing" or "supplementing" the work of the Lord Jesus, see Colossians 1:24.
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