Posted on 12/31/2007 11:46:28 AM PST by NYer
"Grace", we are taught by Holy Mother Church, "is a participation in the life of God" (Catechism of the Catholic Church, §1997) – and Mary, the Angel Gabriel declares, is filled with it! Filled with the life of God, participating in the life of God as no other human being in history. She alone is full of grace, she alone participates consummately in the life of God – even before she bore His Son.
Why?
Because she was to bear His Son. It was from Mary that Jesus took His Sacred Humanity. It was from Mary that He took His flesh, becoming like unto us in every way but sin.
How much closer can a human being be to God ... than to have given Him His very flesh ... enabling, yes, enabling God to become man!
Jesus' flesh was not different from Mary's – it was Mary's! ... just as his Divinity was not different from God's, but was, is, God's.
Ponder that a while ... and look at Mary anew, and her place in the scheme of things, in what theologians call, "the economy of Salvation."
She was not just "highly favored" as many current translations inexplicably corrupt the text ,"gratia plena".
Abraham was highly favored by God. Moses was highly favored by God. David was highly favored by God. But neither Abraham nor Isaac, neither Jacob nor David, and not even Moses, were "full of grace" --- that is to say, fully possessed of that participation in the very life of God with which Mary was endowed through her Immaculate Conception in the womb of her mother, St. Anne. She was to bear, to give flesh that was untainted by sin, to the Son of God
Who can possibly be closer to Jesus Christ both in Heaven and on Earth? Who is, ever will be, more one with Him ... than Mary, whose flesh is one flesh with Him since the moment of His conception in her womb, His Incarnation --- and will be for all eternity?
Who is like unto Mary? No man. No other woman. Only her Son.
That we should love her, who loved Him most, is loving Christ Himself in His Sacred Humanity, a humanity inseparable from His Divinity. In Him is Mary as she is in no other; in Mary is Christ as He is in no other!
We cannot love Mary enough. Nor can we separate her from her Son any more than we can separate from Jesus his Divinity from His Humanity.
Look at Mary anew! And if you do not stand back in stupefaction, you are a stone.
Hail Mary! She is full of Grace!
Ite ad Mariam! Go to Mary!
How like unto the Son, the Mother, and like unto the Mother, the Son!
Why didn't you search the New Testament for examples for your New Testament church??? Did anyone bow to servants in the OT???
Really??? It took you guys hundreds of years to find the Trinity, or admit of the exhistance???
Don't you think that's a little odd since John was aware of and wrote about the Trinity in the 1st Century???
1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
How many time did Jesus say 'the Father and I are One"???
Since the hypostatic union defines that Jesus' two natures are INSEPERABLE, then it is impossible to say that Mary is not the Mother of God.
Really??? Where is this hypostatic union defined??? Where is it said that the two natures are inseparable???
Christians have one body, two natures...The old nature (contained in the flesh) and the new nature (contained in the soul)...When the flesh dies, we'll have one nature...
Additionally, if Mary's motherhood is of no consequence, can you explain why God bothered to be "born" at all?
Sure...Jesus had to become human, JUST AS WE ARE...He had to be born, just as we have...He had to experience human life and human temptation, just as we do...He had to be an example...
If the Lord wanted us to ignore Mary's motherhood, being born through her is an absolutely useless exercise on the part of God.
Sounds nice, but you won't find that in any scripture...
Matthew 18:26, 30
The servant fell on his knees before him. 'Be patient with me,' he begged, 'and I will pay back everything.' ... His fellow- servant fell to his knees and begged him, 'Be patient with me, and I will pay you back.'
You really should try BibleGateway Keyword Search.
Thanks for the advice...I mostly use a program called e-sword...I like that pretty well...
Is e-sword online? I like BibleGateway, but I’m interested in other Scriptural resources. How do I get e-sword?
Which of these is in the Bible?
Wait - what do you mean by "you guys"? Whenever Catholics refer to the early Church, the shrill chorus goes up, "the patristic Church was NOT the Catholic Church! Blah blah blah". Are you now, finally admitting that "us guys" who defined the Trinity and the hypostatic union were, indeed, the Catholic Church? I will wait for your answer with baited breath...
Don't you think that's a little odd since John was aware of and wrote about the Trinity in the 1st Century???
Belief in the Trinity did not suddenly appear at Nicea. It was the plethora of heresy that required a formal definition (declaration) by the Church, but what is defined was believed in faith and practice long before Nicea.
How many time did Jesus say 'the Father and I are One"???
That only speaks of two persons. Where did Jesus say, "the Father and I and the Paraclete are three persons sharing the same divine substance?"
Really??? Where is this hypostatic union defined??? Where is it said that the two natures are inseparable???
So you don't believe that Jesus had both a human and divine nature?
Christians have one body, two natures...The old nature (contained in the flesh) and the new nature (contained in the soul)...When the flesh dies, we'll have one nature...
Natures aren't categorized as "flesh" and "spiritual". They are "human", "angelic", or "divine" because of their substance, not their tangible or intangible quality. Christians have one body, one nature - human. Only Christ had two natures, fused and inseperable - human and divine. If you believe that when "the Word became flesh" Christ either sacrificed an ounce of His divinity or refused an ounce of humanity, your beliefs are heresy.
Sure...Jesus had to become human, JUST AS WE ARE...He had to be born, just as we have...He had to experience human life and human temptation, just as we do...He had to be an example...
No He didn't.
God didn't have to become flesh and die on the cross, either. But he chose to, yes, in order to be an example to us. And that includes the importance of the motherhood of Mary. If you believe that God HAD to do this or HAD to do that, you're stating that God doesn't have infinite power.
Sounds nice, but you won't find that in any scripture...
Translation: "I can't respond to that, therefore, I will pull out the 'it's not in Scripture' card to soothe my distress."
God can't choose to be at the mercy of a servant? I don't understand!
John 19:10-11
10 Pilate therefore saith to him: Speakest thou not to me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and I have power to release thee?
11 Jesus answered: Thou shouldst not have any power against me, unless it were given thee from above.
despite your weak attempt to equate a Biblical view of God with that of Islam.
I'm not equating the Biblical view, I'm equating your view. If you think God placed His thumb on Mary and made her comply under duress, you're worshiping a different God than me. Eve was propositioned by the serpent, Mary was propositioned by Gabriel. The choice was hers, just as the choice was Eve's.
And yet God did mighty works through these men despite their reluctance because it was solely through His power that these works were done.
It was not solely through His power. It required their cooperation, otherwise they wouldn't have the choice to resist Him in the first place. Be careful when you throw out things like, "it was solely through His power," because it leads to the conclusion that His power was insufficient to draw their assent the first time around.
I'm still waiting for you to explain how limited evidence of Mary in Scripture detracts from her importance...
Here it is...I’m really impressed with it...Has a lot of add-ons if you want them...
How could you define the Trinity when you couldn't find it for 300 years...Could be your church wasn't there for the first 300 years, eh???
The Trinity was defined by the Jesus and the Apostle right from the start...
Natures aren't categorized as "flesh" and "spiritual". They are "human", "angelic", or "divine" because of their substance, not their tangible or intangible quality. Christians have one body, one nature - human.
Well I don't know about that...God is certainly divine...And He certainly is Spirit...So apparently having a divine Spirit is a 'nature'...
You are mistaken about Christians...Christians have the old nature, the corrupt flesh...They also have the new nature, the divine Holy Spirit...
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
The 'inward man' is the Holy Spirit in born again believers...
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Two natures; one, the corrupt flesh which serves corruption, and the inward man, the Holy Spirit who serves God...
Thanks, bro.
Nice try. You said, "you guys" - who were "you guys" if not a body of believers whom you are associating with the Catholic Church? If you weren't with the Catholic Church, you were with heretics. There was no in-between "Christianity" in the Protestant sense. Thus, whomever you are aligning yourself with other than the Catholic Church pre-Nicene is/was, by default, one heresy or another.
Secondly, no one had to "find" the Trinity. The teaching of the Trinity was handed down by oral Tradition, believed by the faithful, propagated by the Fathers, and defined when Arianism and other heresies contradicted them and led massive groups away from the Catholic faith. Ironically, Protestants, for some reason, gladly subscribe to the validity of Sacred Tradition when it comes to the Trinity, totally in opposition to Sola Scriptura.
The Trinity was defined by the Jesus and the Apostle right from the start...
Where? Come now. You must have the chapter and verse that describe the inseparable, tri-person, single substance definition of the Holy Trinity, don't you?
Well I don't know about that...God is certainly divine...And He certainly is Spirit...So apparently having a divine Spirit is a 'nature'...
"Spirit" is not a nature. Satan is a spirit, does that make his nature Divine?
Satan is an angel. The Trinity is Divine. Man is human.
Two natures; one, the corrupt flesh which serves corruption, and the inward man, the Holy Spirit who serves God...
Again, "flesh" is not a nature. Flesh is just material. Your substance - your nature - your lifeforce - is the human soul made in the image of God, not divided between "flesh" and "spirit". Jesus had the lifeforces of both an incarnate soul and the eternal existence of His own divinity.
You can't separate your soul from your humanity. The Holy Spirit does not change you from human to something else. i.e., you and I will never be divine or angelic. Mormons, IIRC, believe that one can achieve a divine nature.
The 'inward man' is the Holy Spirit in born again believers...
Yes, it's the Holy Spirit - not the person in which He resides. Your nature does not change. We become new men, not angelic or divine.
I’m still looking for a Scriptural reference which indicates Mary was requested to be the mother of Jesus. Also looking for a Scripture that supports the Catholic belief that Mary was uniquely the only woman qualified to fill this roll.
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