Posted on 12/16/2007 6:27:59 PM PST by maui_hawaii
This post is a vanity (of sorts). It is geared toward Jim Robinson, the Moderators, and the sensible members of FreeRepublic.
This is NOT about Mitt Romney. While Mitt is a Mormon he is not the religion itself. This is about at least one aspect of Mormonism that often comes up in a very inappropriate way.
Discussion is fine, please go right ahead and discuss Mormons. However, in the rants and raves going on many people step completely out of line. Much of it is due to ignorance. A lot of people don’t consider them self ignorant, but none the less I am here to try and clear the air about exactly what is wrong with some of the things said.
The point of me posting this is to educate on how some of the comments made fall squarely under the category of things that at least on paper should not be allowed to stand on this site. Please see FreeRepublic, front page, “Disclaimer”.
For those who are curious about Mormon system of beliefs—read on.
I intend to explain why certain comments are no less than inappropriate. Given 9 times out of 10 they are done in ignorance—so I am posting this to help educate. It is not to educate in a manner of your system vs mine, but strictly about ‘this is mine’.
It is not an issue about the Methodist, Baptist, Catholic, Jewish, Hindu, Muslim, Greek, Roman, Anglican, or whoever or whatever, or how they ‘differ’ or anything like that. I am explaining as good as I can how WE do it and only how we do things. This will then in turn explain why certain comments should be deemed out of bounds.
Some of the comments made particularly regarding Temples and Temple Garments are and should be considered out of line as nothing more than a personal attack. I intend to tell you in the most appropriate way possible what those things are so that you can place a lot of the comments into context.
In our religion we make what we call ‘covenants’ and these covenants are taken extremely seriously. The President of the US puts his hand on the bible during inauguration and says that he will do certain things. It is similar to that only that we commit to follow Jesus Christ in our daily lives.
When we get baptized it is a symbol of the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Our baptism is done by actually going down into the water and getting immersed. Baptism has a very sacred meaning to us, as it probably does to many of you.
Our baptism also represents a covenant that we make with God. This means we promise to follow Christ and His teaching to the best of our ability throughout our lives. There is no doctrinal issue about visiting the fatherless and the widows. It is about being kind, mourning with those that mourn, being charitable, loving your neighbor and so on and so forth. In baptism we promise to do those things as a faithful follower of Jesus Christ.
We believe that man will be punished for his own sins and not for Adam’s transgression. I will add this also means we are not responsible for our parents or grandparents or any of their sins either. Each person is individually responsible for how they live their life.
And to us, how one lives their life matters in this life as well as the next. How we live here determines what happens to us now and later.
In addition to baptism we have other covenants that we make inside of our Temples. While they are much more in depth, the general meaning is no less than that of baptism. It is to try and live pure religion as defined by James of the New Testament. See the entire Book of James, and specifically chapter 1:27.
As part of our religion baptism, temple covenants, and marriage are three extremely sacred things.
In the Temple as we make those covenants (similar in meaning to that of baptism, ie take upon yourself the name of Christ) but it is not done by dunking someone in water. Basically you get baptized first, then later on go to the Temple for further instructions.
The whole entire thing is centered around Jesus and also squarely places upon us the need for action in our daily lives.
We believe that those who have labored all their days in bringing to pass righteousness (as defined by James) are the ones who will be found worthy to enter into Heaven.
Another side note is that Mormons do not believe in accepting any money for religious activity. The vast majority of all Mormons in the world are in a lay ministry. Those 19 year olds, most of them have saved every nickel they could since they were young in order to go out and be a missionary. I don’t know how else to describe it except that we take the stuff pretty seriously. Mowing lawns and saving all your money from the time you are 10 in the hopes to be able to go out and spend your own money to be a missionary? Contrast that with a lot of the other stuff going on these days. If we are taking a two year mission seriously we are taking Temples and Baptism even MORE seriously.
Now within our Temples when we make those covenants we are promising to live pure religion. All the extra argument is just that---extra argument. There is a lot we don’t know, but there is also a lot that we do know. James is very clear about how one should conduct oneself, as are the other Apostles. James particularly spoke of governing the tongue. Also see 1 Corinthians chapter 13. The detractors can talk all they want about the Nicene Creed. We on the other hand will talk about how to become more charitable in our daily lives. The latter of those two can help bring salvation, but the former will not.
You can spend your days arguing about the doctrines you don’t know, or living the ones that everyone knows and is completely clear on.
In our Temples we make covenants to follow God in this manner. In making those covenants we are given a garment to wear underneath our clothes. It is a highly symbolic meaning. People that refer to it as ‘magic’ or otherwise slander us in this regard is completely inappropriate.
You would be doing the same thing as if you went down to the local river where people are being baptized into the Methodist church and shouting at them and throwing stones at them while they are being baptized. Any rational human being would never do such a thing to mock someone’s sincere desire to follow God.
Yet it is happening all the time here on Free Republic.
We wear our garments underneath our clothes to remind us daily of the lives we are supposed to live. We do not wear it outside because it is an inward commitment.
While God may have something to say about your appearance on the outside, He has a lot more to say about the status of your heart.
We wear those garments as a sacred reminder of not only our Temple covenants, but also of our baptism. Those two things are NOT separate, and in fact they are very much tied together.
Again I will reiterate, how any other religion views this is not the point of my post. I am telling you what WE do and how we do it meaning that we accept these things as a sincere religious devotion.
You don’t go around mocking Jews for wearing their skull caps, or Catholic Priests for wearing their collars, or even a Protestant minister for wearing their robes- yet there are a lot of people on Free Republic that mock me for wearing my garments.
My request in this is that the Mods (or whoever) will see those posts that are made in much less than becoming manners and tones and remind the posters to keep the site right.
When people mock Temple garments of Mormons, they are downright mocking and in some ways persecuting Mormons in general for their devotion to God. Now how is that in line with the disclaimer on the front page of Free Republic?
There might be those posters who will want to start adding in all manners of far end out there doctrines and who want to talk about the never reaches of Mormonism, but the thing is none of those are core to our beliefs and none of those bring salvation.
Our centered beliefs are: We believe in Jesus Christ and to live a Christ centered life, and by doing so we get blessings and prepare our hearts. In the next life Christ can determine if our hearts are worthy and if so we gain Eternal reward. Period.
Anything short of that and you are on the wrong track.
Thank You.
ping as you are mentioned in the post
Is this your opus?
Marking to keep my eye-pans on this’n.
I don’t have any issues with Mormons.
Just kidding, good post.
Maybe you could have us arrested for disagreeing with you.
>>>Is this your opus?
I don’t see this as an opus, but, I don’t give this thread a long life as there are a number of intolerant bigots around here that will cause this thread to be nuked.
Ping for later reading. Thanks for the post.
There are people in this world who do not love their fellow man AND I HATE PEOPLE LIKE THAT! Tom Lehrer
I was raised a WASP in the Southern Baptist church, but the Mormons I have known are great people.
I think more of your co-religionists need to speak up in forums like this.
Good post MH. You said some things that needed saying.
It will have little effect some but I think you did your religion a great service.
I, and most on this site, have no issue with Mormons and what they believe. Never had, never will. We’re better than that.
I was raised Catholic, but I have no problems with any other sect of Christianity. Or any other religion for that matter. My faith is my own, and to each his own.
Suck ‘em up Bra’.
IBMTR
In before moved to “Religion”
Thank you for making an effort. I hope it bears fruit.
Congressman Billybob
You are exactly one of those I mentioned in my post #13.
Not a funny remark at all.
Polish Catholic here. We are the GOP for heaven’s sakes — the party that freed the slaves and gave women the right to vote — and our country was founded on religious freedom. God bless us all, not matter what our faith is.
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