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To: tiki

All I’m saying is that the Bible says Jesus is God the Son, who took on human form, as human was born of a virgin, lived as a man without sin, was crucified for the sin of man as the Lamb of God, died, was buried, and raised from the dead on the 3rd day, and thaw whosoever believes in Him for the forgiveness of sin shall be saved from hell and damnation and will live forever with almighty God in glory. Salvation is of and from and for the glory of the Lord Jesus - not of any works of any man.

Jesus the man had an earthly mother, she is not, was not, can not be the mother of God. She is a mere human who had no more potential to save herself than anyone else and she does not intercede nor help save anyone. Christ alone is the High Priest who intercedes on behalf of His sheep and the Holy Spirit is the only one who probes the deep thoughts of God and helps us commune with Him. God in three persons - complete, everlasting, self existent, creator, sustainer, savior.


94 posted on 12/12/2007 5:31:26 AM PST by Manfred the Wonder Dawg (Test ALL things, hold to that which is True.)
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To: Manfred the Wonder Dawg

***Jesus the man had an earthly mother, she is not, was not, can not be the mother of God.***

If you believe that, then you are contradicting the clear words of Holy Scripture. St. John says in Chapter 1, verse 14 “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.” This clearly shows that Jesus, present from all eternity (the Word), was born in the flesh. In order to be born, one has to have a mother. Indeed, Holy Scripture says that the Holy Spirit was His father, because the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary so that “the holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.” Luke 1:35b Holy Scripture clearly says that the person born of Mary was God, therefore she was the mother of God.

If you are saying that Mary cannot be the mother of God, then you are saying that Jesus was not God, at least not when He was a baby. This is the heresy of Nestorianism: that Jesus was two distinct persons, the human and the divine. If this is the case, then which person died on the Cross - the human or the divine? If it was the human person, then it was not sufficient to atone for our sins. The doctrine of “Theotokos,” declared by The Church at the Council of Ephesus in 431 A.D., combatted this heresy. The doctrine declares Mary to be “Theotokos,” the “God-bearer” or “Mother of God,” in order to clarify that Jesus was the Second Person of the Trinity and not just a human man or two separate persons. The doctrine had its origins in defining the nature of Jesus as being both human and divine and not separate. Your posts definitely **sound** like Nestorianism.

In addition, if you believe that Mary or any other of the saints cannot intercede for us, then you are, once again, contradicting the clear words of Holy Scripture which say that the saints are now before the throne of God:

Revelation 7:14b, 15 “And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.”

and that they offer their prayers:

Revelation 5:8 “And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.”

and these prayers of the saints are offered upon the altar before the throne of God:

Revelation 8:3-4 “And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel’s hand.”


99 posted on 01/07/2008 8:27:03 AM PST by nanetteclaret ("I will sing praise to my God while I have my being." Psalm 104:33b)
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