More new women priest[esse]s than men

BBC ^ | 11/13/2007

[DogwoodSouth]

The number of women who became priests in the Church of England outnumbered men last year for the first time since the church began ordaining women.

...

In a separate [but, dare I say, related?] set of statistics, the Church confirmed provisional figures from January showing average Sunday attendances fell below a million for the first time in 2005 to 988,000.

[DogwoodSouth]

From the "I could have told you this would happen" file...

[DogwoodSouth]

This just proves my highly technical theory of ecclesiastical attendance and affiliation: “Make it pink and the number of men will shrink.” ;-)

[ClearCase_guy]

In the past 10 years I have left 3 churches. All of them had brought in new pastors and all 3 were women. I didn't necessarily mind -- I don't have a deep-seated belief that this is wrong. However, all 3 churches went downhill very fast. Lots more in-fighting -- rational discussions became rare and instead there were more tantrums and moody grudges. There was much less use of the Bible. There were more discussions of political issues (favoring the Left -- everybody supports homosexual marriage, right).

I will never again have a female pastor. I'm no theologian, and I can't say whether God approves of them or not. But I'm done with it.

[Claud]

Wow. Kinda gives you a heads up on where ECUSA is going in 50 years.

And then you figure when all the Catholic “women priests” get tired of being rebuffed from Rome they might well flock to Anglicanism as well.

[PAR35]

You might try a Bible following church for a change. I am aware that the selection isn’t very good in the northeast, but what brand have you been using?

[ArrogantBustard]

I don't have a deep-seated belief that this is wrong. However, all 3 churches went downhill very fast.

The Catholic and Orthodox Churches offer a number of theological reasons for ordaining only men. And they are good, defensible, scriptural reasons.

They're also very dry.

I have noted (from a Catholic perspective) a very good practical reason for not ordaining women: The women who clamour the most for ordination are manifestly unfit for ministry. They see the Priesthood in terms of power, rather than service.

[ClearCase_guy]

Two Congregationalist, and 1 Methodist. As you say, the choices in the northeast are limited, but I now attend a church which is associated with the Evangelical Free Church of America, and I’m liking it so far. A little too much music in the service for my taste, but the message is what I think it ought to be.

[Campion]

You’re absolutely correct. Practically every argument for female ordination, if you replaced the word “women” with “I” and “me”, and put the words in the mouth of a male, would make a reasonable, faithful Catholic say that that man should not be ordained.

[Cheverus]

Hello,
I’m Catholic so therefore High Liturgical and naturally biased in that direction, but since I am from Mass I can give you this insight.

You already know about the Catholic and Orthodox Churches.

There are a number of LCMS Congregations as well as few from smaller Lutheran Groups such as the one in Burlington Mass.

While hidden there are a number of “Continuing Anglican” Churches that you could try.

I hope things work out where you are.

[Cheverus]

Would you ping our Anglican Brethren, I would like their input on this article.

I am left wondering how many smaller Anglican groups exist in England.

[ClearCase_guy]

Thanks. I appreciate it.

[Cheverus]

Actually the ECUSA started Ordaining women in 1977, 17 years before the Church of England.

[PAR35]

I don’t think they are NCC, so that’s in their favor. I think Chuck Swindoll was EFCA for much of his career, before he returned to the independent Bible church movement.

If that one doesn’t work out, you might try the Orthodox Presbyterian Church or the PCA.

[Claud]

I was thinking Anglican Communion as a whole...but I guess the article is only C of E.

[Resolute Conservative]

The Methodist Church, except for a small amount of southern conservative churches, have been on the decline for many years now. They started ordaining woman pastors and the gates are now opening to gays.

[RobbyS]

They see the Priesthood in terms of power, rather than service.

Which means they are feminists. Feminism never seeks equality; they seek domination. Those like Hillary always say that men and women are virtually identical, but they know that men and women are not vreally alike, and they wish to impose feminine thinking on men. The schools are not good places for boys, because they are filled with women who expect boys to behave like girls.

[ClearCase_guy]

I agree. My family had been attending a Congregationalist church, but the pastor (female) kept breaking into tears while giving her sermon (she was going through a divorce) and had also taken up the habit of verbally and physically abusing volunteers at the church.

Anyway, friends recommended a Methodist Church in another town. We went, and it was fantastic. The Pastor was a wonderful man. He really knew the Bible, and he lived it. We had 3 wonderful years at the church and became very involved.

But he retired and was replaced by a woman. She had been divorced, liked to talk about how much happier she was because of it, and liked to preach about politics -- homosexual marriage was a favorite theme (it became rather apparent why her marriage failed. Ahem.)

Anyway, we had to leave there and we spent almost a year visiting area churches. I know that one is not supposed to expect any church to be "perfect", but the ones we attended were very far short of that goal. We now drive almost an hour to attend church, but we like what we've found.

[Resolute Conservative]

Sounds like us. We were in a Methodist Church full of good people and pastor with a Ph.D. who, albeit preached non-confrontational, preached from the Bible. After 7 years he left for another church and the replacement was not nearly as biblically trained and also spoke apostasy as I saw it. About the same time I started seeing what the national conferences were doing and the influx of women and gays to the pulpit and a weakening of biblical messages and decided I no longer could side with that system nor send them my tithe.

We now drive about 30 minutes to a wonderful church of a different denomination. We were called some bad names by some in the old church for leaving it but I later learned that several others have left this church as well.

[Kolokotronis]

“The women who clamour the most for ordination are manifestly unfit for ministry. They see the Priesthood in terms of power, rather than service.”

To the extent that there is any clamor in Orthodoxy for this, I see the same lack of fitness.

[FloreatIacobus]

I am left wondering how many smaller Anglican groups exist in England.

In terms of groups which have actually broken with the C.ofE., very few and very small - in terms of those still within the C.ofE. but rejecting the modernist nonsense, very many and growing.

There is a very strong institutional attachment to the Church of England, it is not merely another denomination (as ECUSA, TEC, or whatever they're calling themselves these days) it really is the Church. Also, there is incredibly strong attachment to the buildings - one analyst said that most English Anglicans would be ok converting to Buddhism as long as they got to keep the churches. English Anglo-Catholics have also been far more romanophile than Americans, when there was the mass-exodus in '92 they nearly all went straight to Rome (which now has many married Priests who were formerly C.ofE.).

The other major factor is that there is a strong minority who still refuse to go near women-priests - and (in part because of Parliamentary scruntiny of church legislation) we are a specifically protected minority. Each parish has the right to pass two resolutions which forbid women-priests from taking services, and can request/demand that it receive episcopal oversight from a Bishop who does not take part in the 'ordination' or women. My own Bishop, Andrew Ebbsfleet is one of 4 Bishops who are specifically there to minister to such people.

The debate is now about women-bishops, the majority of synod is clearly in favour - but it is also clear that the permission won't pass until an acceptable solution is found to dealing with those of us who cannot accept the development.