From a doctrine standpoint, was Christ’s church ruled by one set of doctrines (set up by Him, I might add) or many variations during His time here & after w/ the apostles?
When Paul went to set the saints in Ephesus straight, did he teach them that as long as they believed in Christ all was well regardless of how bad they butchered the doctrines? Or did he teach them ONE set of doctrines to be followed? The Lord set up one church w/ ONE set of doctrines, not many. There were no failures in doctrine while the apostles were here from a church standpoint. But you are correct, man changed that once the apostles were no more.
Did He ever indicate that variations by man were o.k.? My studies of the Bible say absolutely not. Churches have had failures b/c they were run by man & their philosophies, not the Lord & the way He set up the church while here. That’s where your argument falls flat.
You seem to accept the teachings of man w/o direct input from the Lord. All these interpretations of the Bible & doctrine. Would the Lord really be the author of all that confusion? Would He really allow man to butcher his gospel like that & not say anything? Whenever His church went stray in biblical times, He sent His prophets to set them straight. Why would He go silent now? There’s more confusion now than in any other time in history.
You think we’re here to fend for ourselves. I respectfully disagree. That notwithstanding, I won’t stoop to denigrate your church. Not very Christ like in my humble opinion.
“was Christ’s church ruled by one set of doctrines (set up by Him, I might add) or many variations during His time here & after w/ the apostles?”
Clearly both.
“There were no failures in doctrine while the apostles were here from a church standpoint. But you are correct, man changed that once the apostles were no more.”
The doctrine of the Church was under attack from shortly
after the time of Christ’s Ascension. It continued through
all Church history, which led to the specific statements
of the Church, identifying that heresy. Mormonism is a
manifestation of many of those same heresies.
Everything necessary for eternal life remains right there
in the Bible. No worries mate. When people (like Joseph Smith,
for example) change that, you are correct, that is wrong.
“Did He ever indicate that variations by man were o.k.?”
Only in matters of practice (kinds of music, buildings/
no buildings, etc).
“That’s where your argument falls flat.”
Actually, I’m saying the same thing. People screw up. That
is wrong. Just like Joseph Smith.
“You seem to accept the teachings of man w/o direct input from the Lord.”
Exactly the opposite, FRiend. The Bible IS direct input from
God.
“Would the Lord really be the author of all that confusion?”
Of course not. He is not the author of sin either. Men do
both. Don’t blame God for man’s shortcomings.
“Whenever His church went stray in biblical times, He sent His prophets to set them straight. Why would He go silent now?”
I suggest you do a bit more study of OT history and Church
history. God has often been silent for extended periods of
time.
“There’s more confusion now than in any other time in history.”
Can you prove that, or is it your opinion of our times? It
seems unprovable and an opinion. I would disagree, based on
history. I would nominate the exact Roman/Greek culture that
Christ brought the Gospel into.
“You think we’re here to fend for ourselves.”
Exactly the opposite!
“That notwithstanding, I won’t stoop to denigrate your church.”
I too would never denigrate Christ’s Church.
But, we are talking about mormonism on this thread.
If Paul were here, he would have far, far more severe
words for you, based on how he referred to those who
advocated heresy in his day.
Mormonism is:
A. A cult that mimics Christianity as a forgery
B. A completely separate false religion
C. Both A and B
D. Satan’s best forgery of all time that combines
New Age thought, Polytheism, Polygamy, Christianity,
Masonic ritual, etc.
E. All of the above
Answer Key: Correct answer is E
Acts 151. And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
2. When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.
3. And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren.
4. And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.
5. But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
6. And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
7. And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
8. And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9. And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10. Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11. But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
12. Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.
13. And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
14. Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
15. And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
16. After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
17. That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
18. Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
19. Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20. But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
21. For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
22. Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:
23. And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:
24. Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
25. It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
26. Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
27. We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.
28. For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29. That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
30. So when they were dismissed, they came to Antioch: and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the epistle:
31. Which when they had read, they rejoiced for the consolation.
32. And Judas and Silas, being prophets also themselves, exhorted the brethren with many words, and confirmed them.
33. And after they had tarried there a space, they were let go in peace from the brethren unto the apostles.
34. Notwithstanding it pleased Silas to abide there still.
Strange, my bible says this:
Romans 141. Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters.
2. One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables.
3. The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him.
4. Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
5. One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.
6. He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God.
7. For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone.
8. If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.
9. For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/19#19
17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother, “I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”