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To: DelphiUser; Elsie
"...of a truth i am not [tearing down the Bible]..."

"It is impossible to agree completely with the Bible, for there are places where the Bible contradicts itself."

Words have meanings. It doesn't take a scholar to see what you are doing.

"...exactly how did Judas die?"

Since I believe all of Scripture to be true, from what we can read in the Gospels, Judas "hanged himself" (Matt 27:5) and "he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out." (Acts 1:18)

The believer accepts both as true. I can "suppose" a realistic scenario in which one hangs oneself and after some decomposition the body falls to the ground and bursts open. I am not saying that's what happened - just that it is a plausible scenario that fits the description.

The skeptic says that since the two accounts of Judas' death mention different details, there is an obvious contradiction.

You need to look up the definition of contradiction. Differing details do not a contradiction make. If one said he hanged himself and another said he didn't hang himself, that would be a contradiction.

You can find similar differences in many of the gospel accounts of the life of Jesus. Experts on multiple witness testimony tell us that if the stories are exactly in synch, that is evidence of collusion - getting the stories straight before giving testimony. When the accounts have different details that compliment each other, that is evidence of factual multiple witness accounts.

I guess you just have to ask yourself whether you believe the Bible or not. If you don't then you should probably refrain from claiming it is scripture.

1,175 posted on 11/26/2007 12:27:31 PM PST by sinatorhellary
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To: sinatorhellary
Words have meanings. It doesn't take a scholar to see what you are doing.

Good, because I am not writing these defenses of my religion and person for Scholars, but for the common man who may read this thread.

Since I believe all of Scripture to be true, from what we can read in the Gospels, Judas "hanged himself" (Matt 27:5) and "he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out." (Acts 1:18)

The believer accepts both as true. I can "suppose" a realistic scenario in which one hangs oneself and after some decomposition the body falls to the ground and bursts open. I am not saying that's what happened - just that it is a plausible scenario that fits the description.


I agree with you that it's plausible, but my point was that such a passage in the Book of Mormon would be a cause for much fun making in those such as yourself who are inclined to find "plausible" explanations for the Bible, but fault with the Book of Mormon. That's all I'm Sayin' (and I think that is plain from my words.

The skeptic says that since the two accounts of Judas' death mention different details, there is an obvious contradiction.

I had actually come to a conclusion, similar to yours...

You need to look up the definition of contradiction. Differing details do not a contradiction make. If one said he hanged himself and another said he didn't hang himself, that would be a contradiction.

contradiction
Something that is logically incongruous, counts. Dying by hanging, or going and buying a field, and falling down in it, and dying are logically incongruent, thus we must assume some details to make them fit. I am exact in my usage here, thank you.

You can find similar differences in many of the gospel accounts of the life of Jesus. Experts on multiple witness testimony tell us that if the stories are exactly in synch, that is evidence of collusion - getting the stories straight before giving testimony. When the accounts have different details that compliment each other, that is evidence of factual multiple witness accounts.

Thank you, i have said this myself, about the Book of Mormon and the witnesses of it.

I guess you just have to ask yourself whether you believe the Bible or not. If you don't then you should probably refrain from claiming it is scripture.

I do, (believe the Bible) I am using this as an example of why some of the attacks on the Book of Mormon are disingenuous when similar problems exist in the Bible which the attackers say they believe in. I just want them to be intellectually honest.

Thank you for a well thought out and fair assessment of my words, it's not all that common here.
1,177 posted on 11/26/2007 1:14:47 PM PST by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: sinatorhellary
I can "suppose" a realistic scenario in which one hangs oneself and after some decomposition the body falls to the ground and bursts open. I am not saying that's what happened - just that it is a plausible scenario that fits the description.

And, if one checks Roman practices of the time, NO one took down bodies.

They DID do EXACTLY as you have written.

1,179 posted on 11/26/2007 3:34:15 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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