Posted on 11/14/2007 8:28:07 AM PST by fortcollins
see post 720
So do I enjoy the Lord Jesus Christ and comfort by the power of the Holy Spirit through out the day!
What priest-boss do you have?
I don't have one!
The only resurrection I know of is that given to all the children of God, which is the reunion of the spirit with the mortal tabernacle, turning corruptible into incorruptible. The resurrection as has been pointed out will be either to the resurrection of the damned or the resurrection of the saved, but all are resurrected.”
It is apparent the contradictory nature of those two sentences has escape your attention. The Children of God will not be resurrected to damnation, but there will be so many who will be resurrected to damnation. You see, the Children of God have God’s spirit in them, the damned do not. That Spirit comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. A saved person living around you is already alive eternally because eternal LIFE dwells in their human spirit as The Holy Spirit of God by His promise. It is God in you both to will and to do of His good please, not you doing ‘all that you can do’ to earn His Grace. A fool in an earlier post seeking gamesmanship rather than the mind of God (as spoken by His Word) asked why believers in Salvation by Faith alone would behave themselves and not just do anything their flesh lusts for. I trust you understand why a faither in Jesus Christ does not ‘just do anything the flesh lusts for.’
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Thank you for sharing your understanding with me. I appreciate it. I think a confusion we have is who are God’s Elect and who are God’s children? When I refer to God’s children, or the children of God, I speak of all humanity. We are all His children, whether we deserve the resurrection of the damn or the resurrection of the saved. Not all of God’s children will be saved. Those that are saved are often referred to as the elect.
Again, LDS doctrine is not one is saved by works alone. LDS doctrine is emphatic that we are saved through grace as our works will always fall short. Our works determine our reward. If we do good works, God’s grace will grant us a good reward. If we do evil works, then God’s grace will not save us in our sins. This is contrary to God, unless we repent of our sins and avail ourselves of Christ’s atonement, then grace will spare the repentant.
I do understand however that you believe that being born again changes one’s heart and that God fills you so that now that you are saved, you no longer are disposed towards sin. Unfortunately, this is a lifetime probation, meaning one is always buffeted by temptation and sin. There for, we must be ever vigilant against sin. We keep God’s commandments out of love for Him. The problem seen by LDS faithful is that if merely claiming one is born again and grace alone is sufficient to gain eternal life with God, it very much implies that any sin committed after such a declaration by the person is no longer a sin and thus the commandments no longer apply. Thus, grace without effort is insufficient as well. Lastly, why would God grant His grace to one who does not try to do his best as evidenced by his works, even if that person claimed they were born again?
“Thus, grace without effort is insufficient as well. Lastly, why would God grant His grace to one who does not try to do his best as evidenced by his works, even if that person claimed they were born again?”
Because the Bible says in more than one place He will if you simply ask for it.
[Deuteronomy 34:7] And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated.
[John 3:13] And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
????
That is a totally a distortion of article 8 we study all 4 of the standard works and rotate each year this year is the Bible
Articles of Faith
8 We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God
How many of your sins were yet committed when Jesus died on the Cross and rose again and ascended? How many of David's or Abraham's or Noah's or Adam's sins were committed prior to the cross and ascension? Now, ask yourself 'when is a human professing faith in Jesus as Savior and believing in his heart that God raised Him from the dead' born again? ANd is the soul of man born again or just the spirit of man, or the body of man? When you can answer those questions with surety, you will no longer need the fables of men like Smith.
“So you deny the belief that you will become a god after your earthly death?”
I was addressing whom is worshiped. Whether God elevates others to the same status, my worship is to my Creator and no other.
“we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God”
Other Christian faiths have books, like the Methodist Book of Discipline but none claim to be a book of God and supercede or have equal footing with the Bible.
That is fine, but I asked, do you as a Mormon accept that you will become like God ( become a god ) when you die?
placemark. Though I think this thread has just gotten far too large and has pretty much run its course.
There is a phrase in Mormonism ‘as far as it is translated correctly’ which LDS will occasionally admit to in their beliefs regarding the King James Bible. Having spent time reading the Joseph Smith so called ‘translation’ of the King James Bible (written in king james english, btw), I am amused that his fabrications from whole cloth are considered a ‘better translation’ ... he neither read nor comprehended Greek, Aramaic, or Hebrew....
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It is correct the LDS accept the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly. You are in error about how Joseph Smith went about in preparing his translation of the Bible. He did study Greek and German so he could better understand the Bible, by reading other versions of the Bible. There are many corrections that are from Smith’s translation of the Bible that are footnoted in the KJV published by the LDS church. Most of his corrections are simple spelling and grammatical errors or completion of thoughts. There are significant changes in certain areas and naturally, they agree more with LDS teachings than others since it is believed that plain and precious parts of the Bible were lost at one time.
Therein lies the problem. You advocate using Smith’s translation and the BoM to justify each other. That is like letting my 8 year old decide his punishment for a wrong doing.
The test is to take a non Smith translation ( original KJV, NIV, or RSV are good enough ) and compare to the BoM and if the BoM contradicts the Bible then it is heresy and a lie.
“changes are small like Pharaoh hardening his hart instead of the lord hardening Pharaoh’s heart”
That is not a small change that is changing the meaning and that is wrong.
JOSEPH SMITH TRANSLATION Fabrications … (to the King James Bible!) From LDS source http://scriptures.lds.org/en/jst/10 ; Note, Smith's fabricated portions are italicized; Smith started with KJV text and added for his purposes, to fabricate prophesies of himself and his works of Mormonism ‘scriptures‘.
GENESIS 50: 24-38
24 And Joseph said unto his brethren, I die, and go unto my fathers; and I go down to my grave with joy. The God of my father Jacob be with you, to deliver you out of affliction in the days of your bondage; for the Lord hath visited me, and I have obtained a promise of the Lord, that out of the fruit of my loins, the Lord God will raise up a righteous branch out of my loins; and unto thee, whom my father Jacob hath named Israel, a prophet; (not the Messiah who is called Shilo;) and this prophet shall deliver my people out of Egypt in the days of thy bondage.
25 And it shall come to pass that they shall be scattered again; and a branch shall be broken off, and shall be carried into a far country; nevertheless they shall be remembered in the covenants of the Lord, when the Messiah cometh; for he shall be made manifest unto them in the latter days, in the Spirit of power; and shall bring them out of darkness into light; out of hidden darkness, and out of captivity unto freedom.
26 A seer shall the Lord my God raise up, who shall be a choice seer unto the fruit of my loins.
27 Thus saith the Lord God of my fathers unto me, A choice seer will I raise up out of the fruit of thy loins, and he shall be esteemed highly among the fruit of thy loins; and unto him will I give commandment that he shall do a work for the fruit of thy loins, his brethren.
28 And he shall bring them to the knowledge of the covenants which I have made with thy fathers; and he shall do whatsoever work I shall command him.
29 And I will make him great in mine eyes, for he shall do my work; and he shall be great like unto him who I have said I would raise up unto you, to deliver my people, O house of Israel, out of the land of Egypt; for a seer will I raise up to deliver my people out of the land of Egypt; and he shall be called Moses. And by this name he shall know that he is of thy house; for he shall be nursed by the king’s daughter, and shall be called her son.
30 And again, a seer will I raise up out of the fruit of thy loins, and unto him will I give power to bring forth my word unto the seed of thy loins; and not to the bringing forth of my word only, saith the Lord, but to the convincing them of my word, which shall have already gone forth among them in the last days;
31 Wherefore the fruit of thy loins shall write, and the fruit of the loins of Judah shall write; and that which shall be written by the fruit of thy loins, and also that which shall be written by the fruit of the loins of Judah, shall grow together unto the confounding of false doctrines, and laying down of contentions, and establishing peace among the fruit of thy loins, and bringing them to a knowledge of their fathers in the latter days; and also to the knowledge of my covenants, saith the Lord.
32 And out of weakness shall he be made strong, in that day when my work shall go forth among all my people, which shall restore them, who are of the house of Israel, in the last days.
33 And that seer will I bless, and they that seek to destroy him shall be confounded; for this promise I give unto you; for I will remember you from generation to generation; and his name shall be called Joseph, and it shall be after the name of his father; and he shall be like unto you; for the thing which the Lord shall bring forth by his hand shall bring my people unto salvation.
34 And the Lord sware unto Joseph that he would preserve his seed forever, saying, I will raise up Moses, and a rod shall be in his hand, and he shall gather together my people, and he shall lead them as a flock, and he shall smite the waters of the Red Sea with his rod.
35 And he shall have judgment, and shall write the word of the Lord. And he shall not speak many words, for I will write unto him my law by the finger of mine own hand. And I will make a spokesman for him, and his name shall be called Aaron.
36 And it shall be done unto thee in the last days also, even as I have sworn. Therefore, Joseph said unto his brethren, God will surely visit you, and bring you out of this land, unto the land which he sware unto Abraham, and unto Isaac, and to Jacob.
37 And Joseph confirmed many other things unto his brethren, and took an oath of the children of Israel, saying unto them, God will surely visit you, and ye shall carry up my bones from hence.
38 So Joseph died when he was an hundred and ten years old; and they embalmed him, and they put him in a coffin in Egypt; and he was kept from burial by the children of Israel, that he might be carried up and laid in the sepulchre with his father. And thus they remembered the oath which they sware unto him.
[Deuteronomy 34:7] And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated.
[John 3:13] And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
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2 Kgs. 2: 11
11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a achariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
Matt. 17: 3
3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
If Moses died, how was it he appeared to Christ and Peter and James? No one was resurrected BEFORE Christ was.
When Jesus was resurrected he had a physical body you could touch and then he ascended to heaven.
Moses died and returned in spirit form, he was not resurrected.
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