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To: FourtySeven; Salvation
But still, they will say, "I'm saved NOW". Or, "I don't need good works to be saved."

Strawman!

Salvation is a gift. It cannot be earned, because the price of one sin is death. The blood shed by the Lord at the cross is what paid our price. Faith does not save us, because it also is a gift from God. It is when we use that gift of faith, and believe, that we are saved. If we do believe, there will be works; it is inevitable. If there are no works, then there is no belief, only knowledge, and knowledge that is not acted upon is not belief.

That is what James is trying to convey. He implores us to search our lives for the evidence of our salvation, rather than the complacency, and lethargy, that characterizes the lives of most professing believers. If you are seeking to do works to earn your salvation, they are hollow, and not evidence of belief. The works of which James speaks come naturally, out of love, rather than fear of punishment.

20 posted on 10/30/2007 8:40:14 AM PDT by editor-surveyor (Turning the general election into a second Democrat primary is not a winning strategy.)
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To: editor-surveyor
Strawman!

To say what I said is a strawman is to say what I said is a false construction, easily defeated. So, I guess I should ask you, do you believe works play a role in salvation?

If not, then what I said is not a strawman. If you do not believe that works have a role in salvation, then what I said is not a strawman. And the passage from James holds.

Faith does not save us, because it also is a gift from God. It is when we use that gift of faith, and believe, that we are saved.

I would agree with that, but then add "how do you 'use' that gift of faith"? If you aren't demonstrating good fruit, you will be cast off, cut off, as a dead branch, right?

The works of which James speaks come naturally, out of love, rather than fear of punishment.

I think we agree more than you realize. You just don't want to admit to yourself that works are a vital component to salvation. Note, the OP clearly states (and I agree) that the Catholic position is NOT that our OWN works "save us", rather that the works done, through the POWER of the saving GRACE of Jesus (God) save us.

I'm not sure why you would have a problem with that last statement.

22 posted on 10/30/2007 8:47:27 AM PDT by FourtySeven (47)
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