[Kolokotronis]

"Equal in Essence"??????????????????? Where in the name of the Ecumenical Councils did this person Ware get that idea?

Here is what The Church says about the Most Holy Trinity in the language it was originally said in. I post this not to show that I know how to post foreign letters, but because the West's, especially the Protestant West's abysmal lack of knowledge and understanding of Greek has lead and continues to lead to Trinitarian and Christological heresy.

" Πιστεύω εἰς ἕνα Θεόν, Πατέρα, Παντοκράτορα, ποιητὴν οὐρανοῦ καὶ γῆς, ὁρατῶν τε πάντων καὶ ἀοράτων.

Καὶ εἰς ἕνα Κύριον Ἰησοῦν Χριστόν, τὸν Υἱὸν τοῦ Θεοῦ τὸν μονογενῆ, τὸν ἐκ τοῦ Πατρὸς γεννηθέντα πρὸ πάντων τῶν αἰώνων· φῶς ἐκ φωτός, Θεὸν ἀληθινὸν ἐκ Θεοῦ ἀληθινοῦ, γεννηθέντα οὐ ποιηθέντα, ὁμοούσιον τῷ Πατρί, δι' οὗ τὰ πάντα ἐγένετο. Τὸν δι' ἡμᾶς τοὺς ἀνθρώπους καὶ διὰ τὴν ἡμετέραν σωτηρίαν κατελθόντα ἐκ τῶν οὐρανῶν καὶ σαρκωθέντα ἐκ Πνεύματος Ἁγίου καὶ Μαρίας τῆς Παρθένου καὶ ἐνανθρωπήσαντα. Σταυρωθέντα τε ὑπὲρ ἡμῶν ἐπὶ Ποντίου Πιλάτου, καὶ παθόντα καὶ ταφέντα. Καὶ ἀναστάντα τῇ τρίτῃ ἡμέρα κατὰ τὰς Γραφάς. Καὶ ἀνελθόντα εἰς τοὺς οὐρανοὺς καὶ καθεζόμενον ἐκ δεξιῶν τοῦ Πατρός. Καὶ πάλιν ἐρχόμενον μετὰ δόξης κρῖναι ζῶντας καὶ νεκρούς, οὗ τῆς βασιλείας οὐκ ἔσται τέλος.

Καὶ εἰς τὸ Πνεῦμα τὸ Ἅγιον, τὸ κύριον, τὸ ζωοποιόν, τὸ ἐκ τοῦ Πατρὸς ἐκπορευόμενον, τὸ σὺν Πατρὶ καὶ Υἱῷ συμπροσκυνούμενον καὶ συνδοξαζόμενον, τὸ λαλῆσαν διὰ τῶν προφητῶν"

Now, where do you get "Equal in Essence" from "ὁμοούσιον τῷ Πατρί"?

This is The Faith of The Church. This is The Faith upon which the universe is established. It behooves all of us to accept and understand it!

[ears_to_hear]

So you do not believe that each member of the trinity is equal with the other?

[Mrs. Don-o]

Oh, man, brothah. Our -- um, dialog-partners --- should have been given a fair warning never, never, never to argue with you about the Greek language!

I (ahem) would not have been so foolhardy.

[Mad Dawg]

What are your fave English translations for homoousion? The Episcopal Church went with "One in Being" with the Father . I think that was a reaction to "of one substance" with the Father. The word Substance is a mess, and understanding the scholastic use of it would be several doctoral theses. My gut reaction is against it because just etymologically Sub-stance translates hypo-stasis, not ousion.

But I am stumped by a responsible translation for ousion, and have been for decades. I tend to mutter "ousion" (or at least to think it) and to ask myself, "Is this person talking ousion or hypostasis?" every time somebody says substance.

And then , of course, around the time subjective and objective switched meanings, substance came to mean "hyle", and everything fell apart as far as any kind of terminological coherence is concerned.

αναξιος ειμι

Heh heh heh