Italy's Padre Pio 'faked his stigmata with acid'

Telegraph ^ | October 24, 2007 | Malcolm Moore

[NYer]

The Other Christ: Padre Pio and 19th Century Italy, by the historian Sergio Luzzatto, draws on a document found in the Vatican's archive.

	Padre Pio exhibited stigmata throughout his life, starting in 1911

The document reveals the testimony of a pharmacist who said that the young Padre Pio bought four grams of carbolic acid in 1919.

"I was an admirer of Padre Pio and I met him for the first time on 31 July 1919," wrote Maria De Vito.

She claimed to have spent a month with the priest in the southern town of San Giovanni Rotondo, seeing him often.

"Padre Pio called me to him in complete secrecy and telling me not to tell his fellow brothers, he gave me personally an empty bottle, and asked if I would act as a chauffeur to transport it back from Foggia to San Giovanni Rotondo with four grams of pure carbolic acid.

"He explained that the acid was for disinfecting syringes for injections. He also asked for other things, such as Valda pastilles."

The testimony was originally presented to the Vatican by the Archbishop of Manfredonia, Pasquale Gagliardi, as proof that Padre Pio caused his own stigmata with acid.

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It was examined by the Holy See during the beatification process of Padre Pio and apparently dismissed.

Padre Pio, whose real name was Francesco Forgione, died in 1968. He was made a saint in 2002. A recent survey in Italy showed that more people prayed to him than to Jesus or the Virgin Mary. He exhibited stigmata throughout his life, starting in 1911.

The new allegations were greeted with an instant dismissal from his supporters. The Catholic Anti-Defamation League said Mr Luzzatto was a liar and was "spreading anti-Catholic libels".

Pietro Siffi, the president of the League, said: "We would like to remind Mr Luzzatto that according to Catholic doctrine, canonisation carries with it papal infallibility.

"We would like to suggest to Mr Luzzatto that he dedicates his energies to studying religion properly."

[ears_to_hear]

Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Phl 2:12 ¶ Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.

:)

[Kolokotronis]

“Not to be too hard on you, but I really think the Anglicans were originally connected to the Eastern Fathers instead of to Rome.”

Well, at least until the Council of Whitby, but there are those who would differ!

“You’re not home yet.

You’re in a campsite along the way. (Kolo, I’ve got a potential convert for you. :>”

Ah, Padre, MD is a gentleman, a scholar, a friend and, trust me on this, our kind of guy! Its fine if he stays right where he is and provides a good example to the Latins! :)

[Dr. Eckleburg]

I know you know I know you know...

I think. 8~)

Have you read Whitefield's letter to Wesley lately? There's not one word of Arminius in it.

REV. WHITEFIELD'S LETTER TO REV. WESLEY

I just love that letter. It's so strong and loving and clear.

"...There, I am persuaded, I shall see dear Mr. Wesley convinced of election and everlasting love. And it often fills me with pleasure to think how I shall behold you casting your crown down at the feet of the Lamb, and as it were filled with a holy blushing for opposing the divine sovereignty in the manner you have done. But I hope the Lord will show you this before you go hence..."

Stick around. 8~)

[Thorin]

Don’t you have anything better to do with your time, like feeding the hungry, giving drink to the thirsty, clothing the naked, or visiting the imprisoned? (Matthew 25.) What possible good do you think you are doing here? You are intelligent enough to realize that all you are doing is annoying people, aren’t you?

[Mad Dawg]

I am unworthy!

[Claud]

No, just because people are susceptible to altered perceptions in an emotional group doesn't make them smart, or dumb. It just makes them human.

This destroys the argument about the Resurrection though, you know. How do you or I know that the Apostles didn't just think they saw Christ? See where this leads? I don't want to dismiss mass hallucinations out of hand entirely, but I seriously doubt they are as easily done as some skeptics seem to think.

Where's the evidence, I'd say...what empirical data do we have on this phenomenon?

If they were real, it can very simply be a product of his mind. Science is increasingly finding associations between health and state of mind.

It could be a product of the mind sure...just like the wind could have just happened to blow the right way when Moses was crossing the Red Sea, just like it could have been an anomaly that the earth quaked and the sky darkened at the Crucifixion.

Let me be perfectly clear. Those miracles are in Sacred Scripture so we have to believe them...Padre Pio's miracles are totally debatable. Just let me implore you *do not dismiss them out of hand* just because Padre Pio was Catholic or just because you think it can't happen or because it doesn't make any sense to you personally.

[Mad Dawg]

To this I sat Bologna !

Won't that make it all flat and squishy?

[Uri’el-2012]

To this I sat Bologna !

dyslexic fingers

[ears_to_hear]

I don't see how it means that she sinned. What it explicitly says is that, through no work of her own she was made sinless by "prevenient" grace. How does it mean she sinned?

Sin is defined as a violation of the law. The Catechism says ONLY CHRIST KEPT THE LAW PERFECTLY or could keep the law perfectly. That HAS to mean that mary DID NOT keep the law PERFECTLY , therefore she broke it at some point or points, that would mean she sinned. Scripture says if you break one law you have broken them all.

Yes. Correct. No argument there. She was sinless, as the above quoted passage says, through the grace of God and the work of Christ

Being freed from GUILT is different than NOT being guilty. All of the elect are freed from the guilt of sin, but that does not mean we have not or do not sin.

Hbr 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
Hbr 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

[Claud]

Well, at least until the Council of Whitby, but there are those who would differ!

Filos mou...your Irish is showing!!!!

(Although I have to admit, St. Colman always struck me as a sympathetic figure. And the Quartodecimans for that matter!)

[Mrs. Don-o]

My dear, you answered your own question at #115.

"Only Christ is sinless on his own account. Mary was rendered sinless on account of a prevenient action of God, applying Christ's future merits and perfection to her. Mary did no work to make her a sinless vehicle for God-in-the-flesh. It was purely on account of God's grace, and the work of Christ, that Mary was made sinless." (1) if your meaning is "sinless on their own account, the answer is: only Christ.

(2) if your meaning us "sinless by the work of Christ, not by innate righteousness but in order to be equipped for the unique role of being mother of our Savior," the answer is: only Mary.

Note that Mary, while free of in, is still "short of the glory of God." So her righteousness is entirely derivative, and is not symmetrical or commensurate with His. It is, as has been poetically expressed, like the reflected brightness of the moon in relation to the self-generated brightness of the sun.

[Uri’el-2012]

Keep parsing.

You will soon achieve the Bill Clinton award.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Thank you for this gracious answer.

I have gone to many for advice on the Scripture. I don't even read Greek or Hebrew. When it comes to that, there are many millions in the world who don't read any language at all. They would have to find somebody they trust. I trust Christ, who sent His Holy Spirit to the lead the Church into all truth; and that is why I trust the teaching Church.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

lol. If you are "annoyed" at the proclamation of God's word and the truth of Christ risen, perhaps your conscience is trying to tell you something.

"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" -- 1 Timothy 2:5

---

"But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified." -- Hebrews 10:12-14

---

"Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law." -- Romans 3:28

---

"For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." -- Phil. 2:13

---

"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

...But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness." -- 1 Timothy 4:1-3;7

---

"Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him." -- Proverbs 30:5

---

"And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God." -- Luke 4:4

---

"Be not afraid; only believe." -- Mark 5:36

---

"Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God." -- Matthew 22:29

[Campion]

Only one that never sinned could take the sin and the curse on himself , Mary could not have done that because like all the saints she was freed from the guilt of sin ONLY through the death of Christ.

BTW, this is an incorrect view of the atonement, one popular among Protestants but which Catholics rightfully reject.

It actually minimizes what Christ really did, and makes the atonement less that what it was.

St. Anselm argued that every sin is an infinite insult to the Divine majesty, and requires an infinite propitiation. He further argues that only an infinite person, that is, a Divine person, could offer an infinite propitiation.

Hence the atonement did not merely require a person who was sinless, but a Person who is Divine.

This is aside from the fact that Mary was sinless only through God's grace, not by her own power. According to St. Anselm's argument, even if there had been a human person available who was without sin by their own power (notice: Mary does not qualify), his death would not have been sufficient to completely atone for the sins of anyone else, much less everyone else.

[Mrs. Don-o]

1 Corinthians 12:28-29
And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues.
Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles?

See #433. Christ did not leave us as sheep without a shepherd; nor is God the author of confusion, which is what you get when you put your trust in nothing higher than your own (even conscientious) interpretation of Scripture. Christ, who loves us, did not leave us to that.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Mary was not "free of sin."

That's a fable concocted to take your eyes off the one and only Redeemer, Jesus Christ.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

lol.

[Mrs. Don-o]

1 Corinthians 12:28-29
And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues.
Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles?

See #433. Christ did not leave us as sheep without a shepherd; nor is God the author of confusion, which is what you get when you put your trust in nothing higher than your own (even conscientious) interpretation of Scripture. Christ, who loves us, did not leave us to that.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Satan could quote Scripture for his own purposes.