Posted on 10/25/2007 9:24:05 AM PDT by NYer
Thank you for the clarification.
I thank the original poster for leaving this open as it attempts to discredit a protestants opinion .
Some people seem to have a charism of prayer. I don't understand it, but I've seen enough to assert it without understanding.
So that's kind of how I feel (not think) about the saints and intercession. When I'm wrestling with a problem for several days and then I say to myself, "Well Father Brian often asks Terese for her intercession, might as well bring her in on this," and the problem is solved less than five minutes later - as soon as I gather my jaw up from the ground where it dropped, I say, "Darn! I don't understand that at all, but I'm not complaining!"
Sometimes I'm content not to understand. As long as I can feel the next step, I'll trust God for the rest.
Repeating that out of context fallacy lends no support to you argument.
I meant to add a hearty recommendation for Augustine’s letter to Proba, which says WONDERFUL things about prayer.
Man, Read some Cranmer. Check out his liturgical sources. He was eclectic in Liturgy - Gallican and Mozarabic more than Sarum, but his theology is in the Calvin line of country.
A lot of Protestant antagonists insist, against the history of language, that "co" must mean "equal", and so they are scandalized. That's one reason I personally hope it remains loose talk. The theology stands whether or not it is made in any way official.
Oh, dear Mrs. Don-o, you shouldn't.
You should search the Scriptures for yourself and see if these things are so.
Are you up to it or is it easier just to get your Scripture filtered through the magisterium and "other Christs" and assorted mediators between God and men rather than the only mediator, Christ Jesus, since you have all those "dishes to do" and so on and so forth?
May we both be able to speak like Paul...
"I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost" -- Romans 9:1
The English Church preceded Augustine. My guess is that was why Henry VIII felt comfortable telling the pope to go blow smoke.
No, just because people are susceptible to altered perceptions in an emotional group doesn't make them smart, or dumb. It just makes them human.
Have you ever wondered why Jesus bodily resurrected, or had Thomas touch him?
And I dunno how the power of suggestion makes someone grow bleeding holes in their hands or smell roses.
If they were real, it can very simply be a product of his mind. Science is increasingly finding associations between health and state of mind.
IN all seriousness, where does it do that?
964 Mary's role in the Church is inseparable from her union with Christ and flows directly from it. "This union of the mother with the Son in the work of salvation is made manifest from the time of Christ's virginal conception up to his death";502 it is made manifest above all at the hour of his Passion:
With reason did the Most Holy Virgin predict that all generations would call her blessed, for all the Elect obtain eternal salvation through the means of Mary.
St. Ildephonsus THE APOSTOLIC DIGEST, CHAPTER 1
In her, the many and intense sufferings were amassed in such an interconnected way that they were not only a proof of her
. . . it was on Calvary that Mary's suffering, beside the suffering of Jesus, reached an intensity which can hardly be imagined from a human point of view but which was mysteriously and supernaturally fruitful for the Redemption of the world. - - Salvifici Doloris(16)
To this I sat Bologna !
I thoroughly agree with anyone who doesn't want to follow anyone else's interpretations.
After all, it's not my interpretor, pastor, teacher, Christian musician, favorite TV Christian, priest, etc., who has to stand before God and answer for my life.
That would be me.
Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Please do post it IN CONTEX.
Thanks
Amen ! We all need to search the scriptures for truth !
Never heard a word about the Blessed Mother being *co-redemptrix*.
I have heard and read about the Blessed Mother being *co-mediatrix*. I concur with you on *co must mean equal* nonsense. Words mean things no matter how hard we might wish them to mean something else.
I spent a year in Newark airport one night - the old airport, that looked like a 1940’s bus station in a bad neighborhood.
That means Mary sinned as do all men, but she was declared righteous by a work of Christ as are all born again, (saved) men,...
I don't see how it means that she sinned. What it explicitly says is that, through no work of her own she was made sinless by "prevenient" grace. How does it mean she sinned?
Here is the bottom line. Only one that never sinned could take the sin and the curse on himself , Mary could not have done that because like all the saints she was freed from the guilt of sin ONLY through the death of Christ.
Yes. Correct. No argument there. She was sinless, as the above quoted passage says, through the grace of God and the work of Christ.
When we say it's all gift, and our interlocutors don't believe that we mean it, what can we do? We keep saying "full of Grace" and we are told we MUST mean full of good works. We say, the declaration (name slips my mind) of the Immaculate Conception explicitly says Mary was made sinless through the grace of Christ. And to Him and to the Father in the Unity of the Holy Spirit always be the glory.
“Dear Dr Eckleburg, why should I prefer your interpretations to the interpretations of anybody else?”
‘cause the good doctor has my file and the pictures!!
Already have, post #392 :)
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