The Battle of Gog and Magog: Prophetic Deja Vu

American Vision ^ | 10/23/2007 | Gary DeMar

[topcat54]

An article is circulating around the Internet that carries the title “Israel Warns World War III May be Biblical War of Gog and Magog.” It is written by Ezra HaLevi and was published in Israel National News.¹ The article begins with the following prophetic claims, not unlike so many evangelical and fundamentalist end-time assurances about the end:

US President George W. Bush said a nuclear Iran would mean World War III. Israeli newscasts featured Gog & Magog maps of the likely alignment of nations in that potential conflict. Channel 2 and Channel 10 TV showed the world map, sketching the basic alignment of the two opposing axes in a coming world war, in a manner evoking associations of the Gog and Magog prophecy for many viewers. The prophecy of Gog and Magog refers to a great world war centered on the Holy Land and Jerusalem and first appears in the book of Yechezkel (Ezekiel). On one side were Israel, the United States, Britain, France and Germany. On the other were Iran, Russia, China, Syria and North Korea.

M. R. DeHaan, writing in 1951, identified “the sign of Gog and Magog” to be one of the “three most outstanding signs of the coming of Christ.”² In 1972, Carl Johnson wrote Prophecy Made Plain for Times Like These.³ His chapter on “When Russia Invades the Middle East” includes a lengthy quotation from a message Jack Van Impe gave at Canton Baptist Temple in Canton, Ohio, sometime in 1969. Like so many who claim to know what’s on the prophetic horizon, Van Impe made his case for an imminent war with Russia on what the newspapers of 1969 were reporting. This war was so close, he charged, “that the stage is being set for what could explode into World War III at any moment.”⁴ In 1971, Ronald Reagan, then governor of California, followed a similar prophetic script:

Ezekiel tells us that Gog, the nation that will lead all of the other powers of darkness against Israel, will come out of the north. Biblical scholars have been saying for generations that Gog must be Russia. What other powerful nation is to the north of Israel? None. But it didn’t seem to make sense before the Russian revolution, when Russia was a Christian country. Now it does, now that Russia has become Cummunistic and atheistic, now that Russia has set itself against God. Now it fits the description of Gog perfectly.⁵

This familiar interpretation of Ezekiel 38 and 39 has been written about, talked about, and repeated so often that it has become an unquestioned tenet of prophetic orthodoxy. The question is, does the Bible teach it?

Ezekiel 38 and 39 has been interpreted in various ways over the centuries. The most popular view is to see the prophecy as a depiction of a future battle that includes an alliance of nations led by modern-day Russia in an attack on Israel. Chuck Missler writes in his book Prophecy 20/20 that “the apparent use of nuclear weapons has made this passage [Ezekiel 38 and 39] appear remarkably timely, and some suspect that it may be on our horizon.”⁶ Prophecy writers for nearly 2000 years have made similar claims, of course without the reference to “nuclear weapons.” In the fourth and fifth centuries, Gog was thought to refer to the Goths and Moors. In the seventh century, it was the Huns. By the eighth century, the Islamic empire was making a name for itself, so it was a logical candidate. By the tenth century, the Hungarians briefly replaced Islam. But by the sixteenth century, the Turks and Saracens seemed to fit the Gog and Magog profile with the Papacy thrown in for added prophetic juice. In the seventeenth century, Spain and Rome were the end-time bad guys.⁷ In the nineteenth century, Napoleon was Gog leading the forces of Magog-France.⁸ For most of the twentieth century, Communist Russia was the logical pick with its military aspirations, its atheistic founding, and its designation of being “far north” of Israel. In a word, identifying Gog and Magog with a specific nation or group of nations in the past is legion.⁹

As the above brief study shows, when the headlines change, the interpretation of the Bible changes. The failed interpretive history of Ezekiel 38 and 39 is prime evidence that modern-day prophecy writers are not “profiling the future through the lens of Scripture” but through the ever-changing headlines of the evening news.¹⁰

A lot has to be read into the Bible in order to make Ezekiel 38 and 39 fit modern-day military realities that include jet planes, “missiles,” and “atomic and explosive” weaponry. Those who claim to interpret the Bible literally have a problem on their hands.

The battle in Ezekiel 38 and 39 is clearly an ancient one or at least one fought with ancient weapons. All the soldiers are riding horses (38:4, 15; 39:20). These horse soldiers are “wielding swords” (38:4), carrying “bows and arrows, war clubs and spears” (39:3, 9). The weapons are made of wood (39:10), and it is these abandoned weapons that serve as fuel for “seven years” (39:9). Tim LaHaye describes a highly technological future when the antichrist rises to power to rule the world. “A wave of technological innovation is sweeping the planet. . . . The future wave has already begun. We cannot stop it. . . . [T]he Antichrist will use some of this technology to control the world.”¹¹ How does this assessment of the near prophetic future square with a supposed tribulation period when Israelites “take wood from the field” and “gather firewood from the forests”? (39:10). There is nothing in the context that would lead the reader to conclude that horses, war clubs, swords, bows and arrows, and spears mean anything other than horses, war clubs, swords, bows and arrows, and spears. And what is the Russian air force after? Gold, silver, cattle, and goods (38:12­–13). In what modern war can anyone remember armies going after cattle? How much cattle does Israel have? Certainly not enough to feed the Russians! The latest claim is that Israel will discover oil, and this is what will attract the nations to Israel. Where in the Bible do we find this claim?¹²

Chuck Missler attempts to get around the description of ancient war implements by claiming that the various Hebrew words “is simply 2,500-year-old language that could be describing a mechanized force.”¹³ The word translated “horse,” “actually means leaper” that “can also mean bird, or even chariot-rider.” He tells us that the Hebrew word translated “sword” “has become a generic term for any weapon or destroying instrument.” In a similar way, “arrow” means “piercer” and “is occasionally used for thunderbolt” and could be “translated today as a missile.” We are to believe that “‘Bow’ is what launches the [missile].”¹⁴ Is Missler trying to tell us that when Ezekiel wrote “bow” and “arrow” he really meant a launching pad for a missile? To follow his interpretive methodology requires us to believe that the meaning of the Bible has been inaccessible to the people of God for nearly 2500 years. Missler, like nearly all end-time prognosticators, breaks all the rules of exegesis.

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1. Israeli National News

2. M. R. DeHaan, Signs of the Times and other Prophetic Messages (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1951), 74.

3. Carl G. Johnson, Prophecy Made Plain for Times Like These (Chicago: Moody Press, 1972).

4. Jack Van Impe, The Coming War With Russia (Old Time Gospel Hour Press, n.d.). The quotation is taken from a message that Van Impe gave at Canton Baptist Temple, Canton, Ohio. The talk was recorded and available on a as an LP. Quoted in Johnson, Prophecy Made Plain for Times Like These, 82–83.

5. From an address that Ronald Reagan gave at a dinner with California legislators in 1971. Quoted in Paul Boyer, When Time Shall Be No More: Prophecy Belief in Modern Culture (Cambridge, MA: The Belknap Press of Harvard University, 1992), 162.

6. Chuck Missler, Prophecy 20/20: Profiling the Future Through the Lens of Scripture (Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson, 2006), 155.

7. Francis X. Gumerlock, The Day and the Hour: Christianity’s Perennial Fascination with Predicting the End of the World (Powder Springs, GA: American Vision, 2000), 68.

8. T.R., “Commentary on Ezekiel’s Prophecy of Gog and Magog,” The Gentleman’s Magazine (October 1816), 307.

9. Wikipedia

10. Gary DeMar, Islam and Russia in Prophecy: The Problem of Interpreting the Bible Through the Lens of History (Powder Springs, GA: American Vision, 2005).

11. Tim LaHaye, “The Coming Wave,” in Ed Hindson and Lee Fredrickson, Future Wave: End Times, Prophecy, and the Technological Explosion (Eugene, OR: Harvest House Publishers, 2001), 7–8.

12. This claim will be discussed in a later chapter.

13. Missler, Prophecy 20/20, 165.

14. Missler, Prophecy 20/20, 165.

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Gary DeMar is the President for American Vision

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Permission to reprint granted by American Vision P.O. Box 220, Powder Springs, GA 30127, 800-628-9460.

[Lord_Calvinus]

***And just what tabernacle would Jesus be tabernacling in when He returns to restore the tabernacle of David???? Hmmmm***

There will be NO return to restore the tabernacle of David. The LORD returned to his people 2000 years ago. That tabernacle was rebuilt ALREADY. The nations are coming. Why do you look far off for what has already happened?

Peters said it.
James agreed that the prophets promised it.
Why do you look for brick and mortar when that which is better has come?

[Alamo-Girl]

Beautiful post, dear azhenfud! Thank you for sharing your testimony and insights!

[Lord_Calvinus]

***The fact that many gentiles were coming to faith in Christ is proof of its fulfillment...***

The Dispensationalists need to wrap their minds around that statement. The FACT that the nations are coming is PROOF of the prophetic fulfillment.

[Uncle Chip]

Neither Amos 9 (which I quoted) nor Acts 15 (also quoted) reads that way. You are placing the cart before the futurist horse.

Here I'll make it easy for you. What happens before the words: "After this I will return ...". Just read the words in bold below:

"Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. And to this agree the words of the prophets, as it is written; After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things." [Acts 15]

Now what happens after "After this I will return ...". Just read the above words underlined.

Please note that the "Gentiles upon whom my name is called" is the result of the "visit to the Gentiles [starting at the House of Cornelius] in order to take out of them a people for his name". The visitation comes first and note that the Gentiles after His return are already called by His name --the end result of the visitation.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you oh so very much for your testimony, insights and encouragements, dear brother in Christ!

I do like your terms "ponderings" and "convictions."

As for me, when I attach a lot of narrative to the Scriptures to prosecute a conviction (in my lingo, a leaning) then I have weighted the reply towards the pondering (in my lingo, musing) side of the scale and it loses strength.

[Alamo-Girl]

No apology needed, dear brother in Christ! You never offended me. May God ever bless you.

[Quix]

As for me, when I attach a lot of narrative to the Scriptures to prosecute a conviction (in my lingo, a leaning) then I have weighted the reply towards the pondering (in my lingo, musing) side of the scale and it loses strength.

= = =

Can’t really argue with that.

Not sure how much it will change my habits . . . I’ll blame my age . . .

But I’ll at least ponder your wisdom on that score some more.

Thanks.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so much for your insights, dear brother in Christ!

I look at it this way, Jesus Christ – the living Word of God – is the power of God. The words of God are spirit and life, Spiritual food – and will accomplish God’s will wherever He sends them.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. - John 1:1-3

His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. – Revelation 19:12-13

I [am] he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. – Revelation 1:18

But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. – I Cor 1:24

Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. - Matthew 22:29

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life. – John 6:63

But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. – Matthew 4:4

For my thoughts [are] not your thoughts, neither [are] your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper [in the thing] whereto I sent it. – Isaiah 55:8-11

Therefore, Spiritually speaking, there is nothing to lose and everything to gain by repeating God’s words here on the forum.

[Lord_Calvinus]

***Now what happens after “After this I will return ...”. Just read the above words underlined.***

You are stuck in a Dispensational mindset. James has already asserted that the “I will return” had ALREADY happened. Quit reading everything as if it still future to you or even James.

Gentiles hear and believe ~ Peter
The prophets agree ~ James

The LORD returned to his people 2000 years ago. Does the name Imanuel mean anything to you???
The tabernacle was rebuilt.
The gentiles are coming is the proof of the prophetic fulfillment to the council. The same observance by Peter is the same coming of the gentiles in the prophecy. THIS IS WHY JAMES CITES IT.

[Quix]

Therefore, Spiritually speaking, there is nothing to lose and everything to gain by repeating God’s words here on the forum.

= = =

I certainly VERY STRONGLY AGREE, Dear Sister in Christ.

[Jeremiah Jr]

A lot has to be read into the Bible in order to make Ezekiel 38 and 39 fit modern-day military realities that include jet planes, “missiles,” and “atomic and explosive” weaponry. Those who claim to interpret the Bible literally have a problem on their hands.

Nuclear missiles and jet planes in Zechariah

Zechariah 5

1 Then I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a flying scroll.

2 And he said unto me, What seest thou? And I answered, I see a flying scroll; the length thereof is twenty cubits, and the breadth thereof ten cubits. 3 Then said he unto me, This is the curse that goeth forth over the face of the whole earth: for every one that stealeth shall be cut off as on this side according to it; and every one that sweareth shall be cut off as on that side according to it.

4 I will bring it forth, saith the LORD of hosts, and it shall enter into the house of the thief, and into the house of him that sweareth falsely by my name: and it shall remain in the midst of his house, and shall consume it with the timber thereof and the stones thereof.

5 Then the angel that talked with me went forth, and said unto me, Lift up now thine eyes, and see what is this that goeth forth.

6 And I said, What is it? And he said, This is an ephah that goeth forth. He said moreover, This is their resemblance through all the earth. 7 And, behold, there was lifted up a talent of lead: and this is a fire that sitteth in the midst of the ephah.

8 And he said, This is wickedness. And he cast it into the midst of the ephah; and he cast the weight of lead upon the mouth thereof. 9 Then lifted I up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came out two fires, and the wind was in their wings; for they had wings like the wings of a stork: and they lifted up the ephah between the earth and the heaven.

10 Then said I to the angel that talked with me, Whither do these bear the ephah? 11 And he said unto me, To build it an house in the land of Shinar: and it shall be established, and set there upon her own base.

***

Woman: Alef Shin Hei
Strongs H802

1) woman, wife, female
a) woman (opposite of man)
b) wife (woman married to a man)
c) female (of animals)
d) each, every (pronoun)

Fire: Alef Shin Hei
Strongs H800

1) fire

And what kind of fire needs a lead cover? Now this chapter makes sense.

Analysis courtesy of Michael Rood.

Zechariah’s Thermonuclear War
http://www.michaelrood.com/news_sp27.htm

If you want to be a wise man you have to hang out with them, that’s why I hang out with Jews.

M

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so very much for your encouragements, dear brother in Christ!

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so very much for sharing your insights and that link!

[topcat54]

A lot has to be read into the Bible in order to make Ezekiel 38 and 39 fit modern-day military realities that include jet planes, “missiles,” and “atomic and explosive” weaponry. Those who claim to interpret the Bible literally have a problem on their hands.

Truer words have never been spoken based on what we learn from this "insightful" analysis of the OT prophecies:

Nuclear missiles and jet planes in Zechariah

Analysis courtesy of Michael Rood.

An abomination of an analysis. Don’t let messianic cultists interpret you Bible for you.

[Iscool]

This has been covered already, but it bears repeating...

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.

The fullness of the Gentiles has not yet been fulfilled...

Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

This is after Jesus shows up again...Has it been fulfilled??? Of course not...

Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

This is a third covenant...

Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

When God is done with the Gentiles, he will turn again to Israel...

[topcat54]

Now what happens after "After this I will return ...". Just read the above words underlined.

The "after this" corresponds to Amos' "in that day". The meaning is that "after this" (after the words of the prophecy were given, aka "in that day"), the tabernacle will be rebuilt (Christ is resurrected) so "that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord" (the gentiles then being called).

"In that day" referring to the day when Christ took on human flesh and walked among us, to bring the nations to Himself. There is not one hint of futurism in the passage.

"14 Simon has declared how God at the first visited the Gentiles to take out of them a people for His name. 15 And with this the words of the prophets agree …"

You’re fail to see that James understood everything that was happening in that day was the exact fulfillment of the Amos prophecy, otherwise how could he say it "agreed" if some of it was not even happening?

Reading Amos plainly, if the "tabernacle" was not rebuilt then the gentiles were not being called. But that was clearly not the case.

[topcat54]

The fullness of the Gentiles has not yet been fulfilled...

Yes, and?

This is after Jesus shows up again...Has it been fulfilled??? Of course not...

Where does it say "after Jesus shows up again"? The next time "Jesus shows up" will be judgment day and the new heavens and new earth ushered in.

Of course Jesus has already appeared once to put away sin and call a people to Himself from among both the Jews and gentiles.

This is a third covenant...

Eisegesis.

When God is done with the Gentiles, he will turn again to Israel...

It doesn’t say that at all. You have to read it into the passage, aka eisegesis.

[Iscool]

Where does it say "after Jesus shows up again"?

Right here...

Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

This is clearly AFTER the times of the Gentiles has been fulfilled...

that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.

Pretty simple stuff here...Israel is partially blinded while God is dealing with the Gentiles...

When God is done dealing with the Gentiles, the Deliverer will show up and the blindness will be lifted from Israel

And then what???

Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

That's the restoration of Israel...

I can't imagine how you and others can't see it, unless you have been blinded as well...

[Iscool]

Amo 9:14 And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them.

Amo 9:15 And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.

There is no way anyone could construe this to mean this event took place in the past...

[topcat54]

The gentiles are coming is the proof of the prophetic fulfillment to the council.

But futurists dispies don’t get it. They think that James citing Amos needs to be read through the lens that places all the emphasis on events in our future.

In fact, whenever they read "Israel" or "David" or "tabernacle" anything remotely Jewish sounding in the NT their thoughts automatically leap forward thousands of years. They can no longer focus on the text.

That’s because in dispensationalism earthly Israel and not Christ is the object and fulfillment of many if not most of the OT prophecies. They truly believe that the promises were made to national Israel, rather than to Christ as the Seed of Abraham per Paul’s words in Galatians 3.

It’s impossible for them to imagine that Peter’s words in 1 Peter 2:9,10 were intended to communicate that the Church made up of both Jews and gentiles is the inheritor of the place formerly help by national Israel.

Their continued emphasis on earthly Jerusalem and earthly Israel is really an indication that they do not understand the real nature of the promise God made to His people (Gal. 4:24,25).