Posted on 10/24/2007 8:18:14 AM PDT by topcat54
God rewards those who diligently seek Him.
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INDEED. As I have done mostly and quite earnestly since about age 11.
Welllllll,
God would, no doubt, be happy to teach dispensationalism to the Replacementarians if they’d merely open their ears, eyes, minds, biases to a more fair-minded approach to Scripture.
The Scriptures are pretty straightforward in most aspects of such prophecies.
I am not however, Pentecostal.
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LOL.
I’m sure an A of G, Calvary Chapel, Vineyard or Four Square church/pastor/group would be happy to cure that.
Some people here that read Revelation think Jesus is going to appear as a half-god half ram.
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BALDERDASH. It seems to me it is well known that THAT ASSERTION IS 100% FALSE, UNTRUE, . . .
NO Dispy on this thread has said such a thing.
The Replacementarians have been ranting about that long after the bad joke. But no one has said such a thing is the spiritual nor literal reality.
I’d have thought honesty had a higher priority on this thread.
God will reveal what He wants to reveal to whomever He wills and at time(s) of His own choosing.
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Plenty of truth in that, imho.
Until the Council of Jerusalem in 49 AD which affirmed that Jesus would return after the times of the Gentiles to restore Jerusalem and set up the kingdom from there in Acts 15:
"Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things."
Some things I guess were just hard to forget for those Jewish apostles, especially when filled with the Holy Spirit at Pentecost.
Yes, and I really do believe that dispensationalists aren’t reading the bible. they are reading the opinions of men regarding the bible.
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I can only speak for myself on that score. But for all the formative years on the matter, I read the KJV, period. God made a number of things clear over those years through my reading, praying, prayerfully pondering and waiting on Him.
It’s still my preferred way though I do certainly consider a diversity of inputs on such things nowadays.
The only problem is that you believe that it won’t happen for at least a thousand years. So much for the words that heaven must contain the Lord until the restoration of all things.
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More mangling of Scripture and super flawed mind-reading of Dispy’s.
I’m beginning that Replacementarians have NO CLUE what I believe.
I personally do not think any Dispy has the sequence of Prophetic Scriptures all flawlessly worked out.
I peronsally believe that God deliberately has structured in some mystery on such scores.
I personally believe that some such things will become clearer the closer we are to fulfillment and that some things will be come clear at the time of fulfillment and some immediately after.
Clearly there will be
A MASSIVE AND FAIRLY THOROUGH RESTORATION of Israel as well as of Christians to a state of ruling and reigning with Christ during the millenium.
What happens at the end with satan tempting those born during the millenium and then the evident New Heaven and New Earth etc. . . . remains to be seen.
I personally believe that the time when the earth is thrown entirely out of it’s orbit will be at that time. But, I suppose it’s possible during the Great Tribulation.
And, you are FALSELY presuming that just because something existed before it must be restored later.
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I don’t read Uncle Chip’s position or statements that way at all. I find him to be exceedingly Biblical in such expectations and constructions on prophecied realities to come.
How very true. That which I don't now comprehend is not because God sows confusion - it's because I've not matured enough in his Spirit to yet understand. Strange as it may seem, ofttimes I see his handiwork in a past-tense condition, making me understand why Moses was only abled to see the backside of God's presence - it's because we're all hind-sighted creatures. Then I realize - I know nothing.
Labels? To be numerated among those of his is the only label one ought seek. Nothing satisfies the soul like that peace he imparts.
You need to find another verse and you need to explain how the restoration of all thing isn’t the restoration of all things.
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I think it would be more fitting and more fun for the Replacementarians to find another Scipture clearly and specifically documenting their perspective on the “all things” issue. I don’t think there is one.
a better use of our time would be to work on perfecting the world in front of us today.
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Though I do spend a lot of time in such activities . . .
I basically disagree.
Scripture makes it clear that God has scheduled to purify the earth with fire this time.
Further, that all flesh driven “perfectionism” is little more than a stench in His nose.
He alone is worthy; He alone is able to cleanse the world, perfect the world; restore the world to Eden’s pristine state.
I don’t presume to know the roles he might have us play in the millenium.
I’m convinced however, that the bulk of the cleansing and probably all of it of any significant or dramatic substance . . . will have already been done supernaturally by God—KING OF THE ANGEL ARMIES as Scripture repeatedly calls him.
TRUE. TRUE:
Labels? To be numerated among those of his is the only label one ought seek. Nothing satisfies the soul like that peace he imparts.
Actually, if you read the passage in Acts 15 very carefully you will see that what James is referring to is the then present calling of the gentiles, since it was the nature of that calling that was the present dispute before the council (whether gentiles needed to convert to Judaism after coming to faith in Christ). If was not the future, but the present that was James and Peter’s concern. As was their custom, the interpret the OT prophecy and apply it to Christ and the present, not the far distant future (the lone habitation of the dispensationalist).
Once again your futurist presuppositions cloud the plain reading of the text.
At least Jesus' disciples got it, which is more than can be said for some folks around here.
Praise God!!!
I confess joy every time you have followed up one of my posts with one of your own, revealing powerful Scripture to underscore the point being made and further underscoring the point with excerpts from Reformation authorities.
No doubt I have inadvertently caused a lot of angst with other posters over the years by using the terms "leaning" and "musing" to weight my own posts.
Musings are merely my personal comments on a subject. They are offered with few, if any, Scriptures and are intended only as "food for thought" in the discussion. They are not important to me and shouldn't be taken that way by anyone else.
Leanings on the other hand refer to understanding I have received in following the Spirit's leading (Romans 8). They are usually very short on narrative and very long on Scripture. The salient part, the powerful part, is the Scripture. Whatever narrative I offer usually just connects the dots in the same path I was led to receive them. To me, they are important though they may or may not be important to someone else.
If you have any suggestions for better words to weight my own comments, I'd love to hear them.
The same happens if we apply the Law of Identity to God, e.g. Trinity v. Mormon doctrine, Catholic v. Orthodox on the filoque and so on.
And again, when we filter the revelations of God by science because methodological naturalism excludes miracles on principle. So some of the enlightened (ahem) modern doctrines pitch the resurrection, Mary as a virgin, Creation week, Noah flood, Jonah and the whale, etc. The red sea was parted by a natural phenomenon, etc.
Love God. Believe Him. Trust Him.
It really is that simple.
3. Christ as unity. Christ undefined is not a unity. The Nicolaitans claimed Christ but Christ did not claim them. We must assume there was a unity amongst the seven churches about Christ that Nicolaitans did not hold. The Nicolaitans may have claimed to be lead by the Spirit through their experiences yet we know that not to be true. It seems clear there must be another grounds on which we judge beyond spirit and experience.
To avoid false doctrine, we must discern the spirits (I John 4), test what we hear against Scripture (Acts 17) and discern the spiritual fruits (Matt 7 and Gal 5). These responsibilities should not be delegated.
But I personally draw the line at pointing to an individual and saying "you are a lump of coal."
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. - Matt 7:2
Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. - Romans 2:1
Not exactly. They were also wondering about what happened to the promise of the restoration of the kingdom to Israel since there were so many Gentiles coming into the church. The declaration of the council is quite clear: First the Gentiles would be brought into the Church [the times of the Gentiles], then after this Jesus would return to rebuild Jerusalem and restore the kingdom from there. Here read it again:
"Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things." [Acts 15]
Once again your preterist presuppositions cloud the plain reading of the text. Does your Bible have the words "After this" in it? Are the words "I will return ..." yet still in the future? You preterists need to get yourself some Bibles with all the verb tenses in them -- Past, Present, and F-U-T-U-R-E.
Well let's see what Jesus' disciples did get. Let's review what we have so far:
After "forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God ... and when they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power."[Acts 1]
Then after this in Acts 3 after being filled with the Holy Spirit, Peter declares to the Jews:
"But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled. Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began."[Acts 3]
And then later at the first council of the church in Jerusalem comes this declaration:
"Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things." [Acts 15]
So we have the restoration of the kingdom to Israel yet future in Acts 1, the restitution of all things [that the Jewish prophets said would be restored] in Acts 3, and the restoration of Jerusalem [the capital of the Kingdom of Israel] in Acts 15.
Does that sound to you like God has forgotten his promises to restore the kingdom to Israel???
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