Posted on 10/19/2007 7:26:05 PM PDT by good old days
Speaking at the Leadership Summit, Hybels summarized the findings this way:
"Some of the stuff that we have put millions of dollars into thinking it would really help our people grow and develop spiritually, when the data actually came back it wasn’t helping people that much. Other things that we didn’t put that much money into and didn’t put much staff against is stuff our people are crying out for."
Having spent thirty years creating and promoting a multi-million dollar organization driven by programs and measuring participation, and convincing other church leaders to do the same, you can see why Hybels called this research “the wake up call” of his adult life.
Hybels confesses:
"We made a mistake. What we should have done when people crossed the line of faith and become Christians, we should have started telling people and teaching people that they have to take responsibility to become ‘self feeders.’ We should have gotten people, taught people, how to read their bible between service, how to do the spiritual practices much more aggressively on their own."
(Excerpt) Read more at blog.christianitytoday.com ...
Wake up call, indeed.
DUH! You know, Bill, if you had read the Bible once in awhile YOU would have discovered the "self-feeding" truth for yourself. Jesus knew how to disciple people, how to send them out to disciple more people. Did you actually think YOUR way was better?
Climbing off of soapbox now...
Could someone fill me in on “who” Willow Creek is, and why they are so heavily dependent on statistical models?
Millions of dollars on what sort of programs, and studies only ot “discover’ that individual prayer and study and the other things that make on follower of Christ are more important then elaborate prgorams?
Seems redundant to me.
Willow Creek is/was a mega church in Illinois. Their methods of bringing people into the church have influenced many churches and many pastors. They toss around the phrases “seeker church” or “seeker friendly.” Willow Creek, and the churches that have copied them, are great at getting people in, but not so good at keeping them. Went to one service at such a church, it was like going to a movie or concert...lots of flash and comfort for the attendee, I mean the seats had cup holders!
Addendum: Such leadership tends to believe that Bible study and individual prayer will 1) be picked up by the believer on his/her own or 2)Really isn’t necessary
Is this the “corporate church” model? Just wondering.
Give me that old-time religion, it's good enough for me.
Don't think so. Willow Creek is a type of model.
Okay. A relative and his family just recently left a church where the leadership had changed hands, and the new leadership was into that “corporate church” theology. Anyone who questioned anything was “in rebellion”.
All one has to do is study and think the meanings of anything in Scripture which fairly well points to Christ. Yeshua, or Jesus, or "Yahweh provides" or "God Provides" everything necessary for fellowship with Him.
Faith alone through Christ alone is all that is needed, and more importantly, we are so often more scarred in our thinking by other distractions which attempt to interrupt that simple relationship.
IMHO, KISS (Keep It Simple Stu..., Just focus on the real meanings of the Word which He has already provided.)
Hybels was the guy Clinton called, after Jesse got busted for bringing his mistress to the WH.
I think corporate church model is when the Pastor (leader) and boards and committees are in charge of a church in contrast to the family church model, when everyone has a say-so in how the church is run.
The "in rebellion" thing really has nothing to do with either model. It is those in leadership throwing their weight around and getting rid of differing opinions so said leadership can assert control. There really is nothing Christian about it and is a great way to start a cult.
PRAISE GOD FOR HIS TEACHABLENESS.
A long list of rock throwers hereon could learn a great deal from him on that topic.
It’s called cult building, focusing on the leadership of “ A CHURCH “ than focusing on Christ.
Give me that old-time religion, it's good enough for me.
The old time religion? Baal and Asherah?
(kidding. insert smiley here.)
A relative and his family just recently left a church where the leadership had changed hands, and the new leadership was into that “corporate church” theology.
"Changed hands" -- that even sounds corporate.
Could someone fill me in on “who” Willow Creek is,
Willow Creek Church. Generic "big box" (and wannabe) evangelical churches pay a lot of attention to how they do things at Willow Creek.
"Interdenominational" (or as a friend of mine says "mutt-evangelical"), generic evangelical church of the baby-dedicating credobaptist persuasion.
And they have a "food court" -- church as mall.
Trouble is, we've got too many modern adherents of those kinds of religions, including some straying mainstream denominations.
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