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To: MHGinTN
I understand that you don’t think baptism is all that important in the grand scheme of things. I will disagree. Baptism, by one having authority of God, is not only important, but it is also essential, and is one of the “works” we are required of to do.

Matt. 3: 15 And Jesus answering said unto him, suffer it to be so now: for thus it bbecometh us to fulfill all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

Matt. 28: 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:.

Luke 7: 30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.

John 3: 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Acts 2: 38 Then Peter said unto them, repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the holy Ghost.

Acts 10: 47-48
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Hebrews 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of claying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

754 posted on 10/17/2007 9:55:13 PM PDT by sevenbak (Truth shall spring out of the earth; and righteousness shall look down from heaven. ~Psalms 85:11)
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To: sevenbak
Jesus needed no baptism to be righteous nor to be saved. HOWEVER, with the baptism He submitted to in John's baptism was required under the law in order to begin His Rabbinical Ministry. Jesus fulfilled the law so that we are now able to be righteousified through His Faith to which we attach via our confession and 'faithing' daily for the remainder of our life. Notice the dove descended AFTER He came up out of the water. Baptism is a doctrine useful to make an open witness of our 'faithe' in Jesus's righteousness for our being saved (as found in 1 Cor 1:18).
755 posted on 10/17/2007 10:02:14 PM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support. Defend life support for others in the womb.)
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To: sevenbak; Diamond; Elsie; Colofornian; Revelation 911; xzins; Alamo-Girl; Jim Robinson
While awaiting the other posted to/with whom you entered the challenge, allow me to address the other baptism verses you asked me about. With all the other things I had to do today, this didn't get addressed until this evening (it's 6:44 PM back here in Tennessee). I'm pinging others who might be interested in this exchange, not trying to call in reinforcement troops.

Matt. 3: 15 And Jesus answering said unto him, suffer it to be so now: for thus it bbecometh us to fulfill all righteousness. Then he suffered him. [ You need to take the LDS markers out when you drag and post to FR threads … the underlined is an illustration. As I mentioned last night, Jesus needed no baptism for righteousness, but He did submit to be baptized to start his Rabbinical service. ]

Matt. 28: 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: [ Neither of us would quarrel with this command in the new covenant. But it does not come down either way as to the necessity of baptism for salvation, so we will keep moving along in your word-search generated drag and paste exercise. ]

Luke 7: 30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him. [ This passage is better understood if one takes the perspective that ‘being not baptized of Him’ relates to not being ‘in’ Him, and speaks not a single deciding thing as to what importance water baptism has. So we move on … ]

John 3: 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. [The previous verses and exchanges show us that Jesus was referring to the water of the womb: John 3:3-5 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. ]

Acts 2: 38 Then Peter said unto them, repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the holy Ghost. [ Was Jesus Christ the means for remission of sin, or was the baptism in water you seem to prefer? ]

Acts 10: 47-48
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the holy Ghost as well as we? [ Having received already the Holy Spirit of God into them, they are already cleansed in the Blood of Jesus. Does the water make them cleaner? ]
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days. [ Submitting oneself for baptism ‘unto Jesus’ is the outward sign of the believer’s commitment to Jesus, to be transformed by the presence of His Spirit indwelling them. ]

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. [ Again, I say to you that the Greek text had no punctuations such as commas to divide the clauses, so the ‘and’ is the operant divider; the text reads ‘arise AND be baptized AND wash away thy sins calling on the name of the Lord. ONLY the blood of Jesus washes away thy sins. ]

Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. [ They believed, were saved, then submitted for baptism. The text does not imply they were baptized to be saved for it was their belief in what Philip preached concerning the kingdom of God AND the name of Jesus Christ. ]

Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Hebrews 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of claying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. [ As with the first verse above which contains an extra “b” your drag and paste from church teaching aides has an extra “c” with ‘laying on of hands’. Preceeding the verse you pasted is this verse:
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God”. And following the verse you pasted is this: “And this will we do, if God permit.” Putting together 6:1 and 6:2 and 6:3 without the non-Greek punctuations, we have a different picture than the single out of context verse you pasted: “Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ let us go on unto perfection not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God of the doctrine of baptisms and of laying on of hands and of resurrection of the dead and of eternal judgment. And this will we do if God permit.”

May I ask you to question your heart? … Which is more important, faith toward God, doctrine of baptism, repentance from dead works, laying on of hands, resurrection of the dead? You can see that the first is the single most important because all the others can flow from that. And scripture/THE WORD OF GOD confirms this when it/HE teaches ‘by faith Abraham believed God and it was counted for him righteousness.

When you consider the Blood of Christ, what might you add to that Blood to achieve righteousness? If I ask you what is the means of your Salvation, do you say ‘Oh the Blood of Jesus, BUT I need to do all that I can do …?” Once you were born into the lineage of your father, is there any means you may apply that will ‘de relate you‘, take you out of being his son? Once you are born of His Spirit, at the confession with your mouth that He is your deliverer, your redeemer, you are born into His family. As a member of His family, you will do certain things He directs, such as being baptized to acknowledge Him before men --for if you will not acknowledge He is your Savior before men, why would He represent you before His Father in Heaven? The baptism doesn’t save you by addition to what He has already done, the works that you do or allow Him to do in you do not save you; His Blood applied to the doorpost and lintel of your spirit Saves you, THEN you are called to behave as His child in His family.

Pax Vobiscum

789 posted on 10/18/2007 4:10:03 PM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support. Defend life support for others in the womb.)
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