I contend that the B of M is a fair novel, a fabrication look-alike to the Bible, containing much lifted from the Bible, but soiled by the fabrications of the whole if one tries to claim it is scripture from God; add some leaven to dough and it will leaven the whole loaf ... in this case add some falsehood to the truths from Isaiah, etc. and the whole work is collectively untruth. God does not deal in untruth. Asking if something is untrue is a way to exclude God answering directly. Now take a look at what the Bible teaches regarding truth (not untruth, that is the purview of the father of lies who knows how to twist and dissemble so that the unlearned --study to show thy self approved-- fall into traps):
James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. ... Notice how James doesn't say 'ask if something is untrue' or 'ask if it is not true.' Wisdom is not 'delineating what is untruth'; wisdom is knowing The Truth for to know The Truth you are freed from the untruth because it cannot stand in the light of Truth.
I have prayed the faulty prayer dictated to me by Mormon missionaries more than two decades ago, then I began reading the B of M. I got an 'answer' all right, a very negative one; not an answer directly tied to the truth or falsehood of the B of M, a very clear rebuke for asking something that has at its root the implication that God has not provided sufficiently for me a new faither in Christ Jesus. Satan used that trick with Eve, implying that God had left out something vital to Eve and Adam. It took a mature Christian to explain to me why I got a rebuke. Thankfully, he was there to guide me at a time when confusion was growing. Again I declare, at the root of Mormonism is the demonic lie that that which Jesus said would not be defeated by the gates of hell, was actually defeated for a season of approx. 1700 years, and in need of 'restoration' with a lying, adulterous, treasure divining false prophet who fabricated materials he claimed were 'from God' and even rewrote the Bible to try and fabricate prophesies of his 'coming in these latter days.' THAT great heresy that God has lost or left off something vital is the same lie sown by Satan in the Garden!
Mormonism Apologists will often try to counter the above assertion by pleading to look at the fruits of Mormonism in adherents of that religion. I have yet to read a Mormonism Apologist explain to me the difference between fruit of the spirit and fruit of the striving flesh. They can cite Bible verses which enumerate fruit of the spirit, but they haven't a clue how that is evidenced in contrast with fruit of the flesh striving 'to do all that they can do' to earn exaltation. It is a huge blind spot for Mormons ... they cannot fathom that good works are not fruit of the spirit so they strive to do 'the good works that God has ordained for us to walk in' but they accomplish all they can without the indwelling Holy Spirit as author of fruit so they believe they are acting 'godly' in their behavior cited as good fruit but is actually fruit of the flesh as show to pretend God is bring that fruit out of them.
Fruit of the Spirit is a very individual thing authored by the indwelling Holy Spirit as the transformational work Jesus taught us to comprehend through the teachings of the Apostle Paul whom He chose to unfold that great mystery! The natural mind cannot produce righteousness in the natural man/woman. The natural mind can imitate, but it cannot produce that which ONLY GOD can create. The Blood of Christ cleanses the human spirit throne of 'self' and then the Holy Spirit of God comes to reside there, transforming the one believing in Jesus by the renewing of the mind of the soul. [Jesus gave notice of this relationship of spirit and soul when he spoke of 'let the dead go bury the dead'.]
Faith is an action word, not static. I can 'believe' I have a truck in the driveway that will take me to the store, but until I pick up the keys, walk out to the truck and insert the key and try the engine, I have a 'not yet living faith'. James tried to explain the contrast in the letter he wrote. He failed because his mind was steeped in 'works of the law'. James failed to explain it as the entire rest of the Bible teaches because James himself couldn't release his mind from the 'authority of the law' --and the contrast is in the Bible for our edification, to show what is not the 'believed God and it was counted for him righteousness.' Faith is better understood by seeing it as 'to faithe', an action term.
ONLY the human soul with the Holy Spirit indwelling the human spirit will have fruit of the Spirit. Oh, it's no secret that lots of leafy show gets paraded out as 'fruit of the spirit', but there are no figs there so the showy tree is accursed; the truth in the Bible teaches that fruit of the spirit is individual and internal, first, then it flows out for the world to witness as that listed in the Bible. Jesus even illustrated this principle with a fig tree He cursed for not having fruit but lots of leafy show, with the parable of the lamps and oil, and the sower and the seed.
Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Faith is a thing; faithe is a life being lived by direction form the source of Life. Deliverer faith is something, some One, Who comes in the minute one believes Jesus is the Christ and God has raised Him from the dead. Delivering faith is a day-by-day leaning upon the promise of God to transform the faither. Fruit of this transformation is first individually internal, then it manifests outwardly from the new 'flesh' (read self) God's Holy Spirit is gestating by His work; faithe is not 'all that we can do', it is all that He does in use to transform us. We are to submit, He will transform.
ping if you’re so inclined
Thank you so much for that post. Honestly it brought tears to my eyes. I am so blessed to be in Christ! His spirit has done wonders in my life that no ordinance of “laying on of hands” ever accomplished.
I wish Mormons understood the difference between spirit and flesh. Ordinances, covenants and rites do NOT do anything unless they be a reminder of what Christ has done in your life. Otherwise they are demonic attempts to persuade yourself that your fleshly partaking of oaths actually do anything.
“See if you catch the contradiction in the following Mormonism syllogism: “The real test is to study the doctrine and ask God if it is not true. If you do so will [sic - ‘with’] real intent, God will show you the truth.””
Talk about trying to make one an offender for a word!
Consider the sentence: ‘Is it not true?’. You can look at it as ‘Is it (not true)?’ (asking if it is false) or ‘Is it not (true)’ (asking if (perhaps even implying) it is true).
If you really to split semantical hairs by those rules, apply that rule to the Bible as well. Consider:
1 Cor. 10: 16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?
The only problem here is with old English phraseology parsed incorrectly.
Even accepting that kind of parsing, I fail to see any problem. If you read the BoM, ponder it sincerely and honestly think it’s fake, I would still say pray to God, tell him that that is what you think of it, and ask if your conclusion is correct or not. The verse is not there to assert it is true or not true, the intention is to encourage you to pray and find out from God.
“Asking if something is untrue is a way to exclude God answering directly.”
That is your own idea, I don’t limit God’s ability to answer prayers like that and see no reason in scripture to do so.
“Notice how James doesn’t say ‘ask if something is untrue’ or ‘ask if it is not true.’ Wisdom is not ‘delineating what is untruth’; wisdom is knowing The Truth for to know The Truth you are freed from the untruth because it cannot stand in the light of Truth.”
Is there wisdom in not knowing that something false is false? Is there wisdom in not knowing that something true is true? It makes no difference whatsoever to ask if something is true or if something is not true. God is perfectly willing and able to answer either, and in either case his answer will impart wisdom.
“not an answer directly tied to the truth or falsehood of the B of M, a very clear rebuke for asking something that has at its root the implication that God has not provided sufficiently for me a new faither in Christ Jesus.”
Yet James says when God answers he ‘upbraideth not’.
“I have yet to read a Mormonism Apologist explain to me the difference between fruit of the spirit and fruit of the striving flesh.”
The fruits of the spirit are given to your spirit by the Holy Spirit, they are not something you can see externally, they are something you feel in your soul. By recognizing their presence you can identify when the Holy Spirit is present, and the Holy Spirit will not be present when false doctrines are being taught, rather it is his job to be there when true doctrines are taught so that people are lead to belive them. Look at what happened on the Day of Pentecost, those who heard were ‘pricked in their hearts’, they felt the confirming witness of the Holy Ghost.
Now Christ said ‘by their fruits ye shall now them’ and this clearly refers to externally visible results. Now if you are going to just brush off those kind of results as just ‘the fruit of the striving flesh’ and hence something to be ignored, then you are also saying Christ was handing out some really useless advice.
Now you have a point that those external results are brought about by human effort, but why is that effort made? What is it that motivates such effort? All human effort stems from faith, and so when someone had faith in something true, they will exert effort as that faith directs, and the results of that effort will be good fruit. If someone has faith in something false, they will exert effort as that faith directs and the results will not be good fruit.
The results of living the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints results in good fruit. Trying to find a way to claim that we are a thorn bush that produces grapes sets aside the word of Christ.
What a strange thing for a Bible-believing Christian to write! Do you really mean to say that James—no less than an apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ—failed to explain faith correctly?
I do not believe that James failed at all. His epistle seems perfectly clear to me, and it accords with my own experience of faith.
The funny thing is that your description of faith as an action term also seems quite correct to me, and it agrees with what James and the other apostles to taught.