Mormon ousted as an apostate

East Valley Tribune—Phoenix, AZ, MSNBC ^ | Sept 23, 2007 | Lawn Griffiths

[colorcountry]

Being excommunicated for apostasy by the Mormon church is one thing, but Lyndon Lamborn is livid that his stake president has ordered bishops in eight Mesa wards to take the rare step of announcing disciplinary action against him to church members today. "I thought if he could go public, so can I," said Lamborn, a lifelong member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, who said his research into church history gave him "thousands of reasons the church can't be what it claims to be."

Stake President R. James Molina acknowledged Friday he intends to have Lamborn's excommunication announced to the wards at men's priesthood meetings and womens Relief Society gatherings, even with Lamborn now taking his case public. Molina, as well as officials at church headquarters in Salt Lake City, call such a public warning about an ousted member extremely rare. They say, however, church members must be protected from what discordant ex-followers may say to damage the church...................

[Elsie]

Actually, I have. That is one of the reasons I am still happily in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

Good; for perhaps you can show me just what is so ABOMINABLE about that creed:

 

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The Nicene Creed

I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made.

Who, for us men and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and was made man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate; He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and sits on the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.

And I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of Life; who proceeds from the Father and the Son; who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; who spoke by the prophets.

And I believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; and I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

[Elsie]

But handle the subject so as not to be seen as picking a fight.

This is kind of tricky with some LDS organization members, for everything that does not speak favorably about their belief is going to be 'picking a fight' in their mind.

[Diamond]

Are you announcing some kind of organized effort in which you are cooperating with other posters?

No, it's a secret conspiracy!

Cordially,

[Diamond]

No apology necessary, MHG. Post whatever Scripture you want. I'm always glad for your pings.

Cordially,

[Diamond]

Diamond, I am sorry if you feel disgusted by those who are honest in their beliefs such as I.

Delphi, I am not disgusted by you personally. It has nothing to do with you as a person. I do think that many of the doctrines to which you cling are abominable falsehoods and blasphemies, but I also realize I don't have any more power to cause you to see this than I have to raise a man from the dead. You are not answerable to me, after all. You are free to believe and say what you want.

I read and comment sometimes on threads that interest me. You can post to me or not, any time you want, as you see fit.

MHG, if I had my druthers, I would let Delphi do the work to find the verses that call Jehovah, "Elohim".

Cordially,

[Old Mountain man]

It appears to be some sort of document defining the nature of God in language that is not clear nor is it intended to be clear.

[greyfoxx39]

Placemark

[DelphiUser]

I Said: Are you announcing some kind of organized effort in which you are cooperating with other posters?

You Said: No, it's a secret conspiracy!

Cordially,

Oh, OK, so I'll stop talking about your secret conspiracy... Hey you guys might want to move to the a new setting on your secret decoder rings until the new codes can be sent out, this one appears to be compromised, FYI. I suggest C-4.

DU

P.S. Keep the Conspiracy secret, I tried to have public conspiracy once, it didn't work well.

[DelphiUser]

I Said: Diamond, I am sorry if you feel disgusted by those who are honest in their beliefs such as I.

You Said: Delphi, I am not disgusted by you personally. It has nothing to do with you as a person. I do think that many of the doctrines to which you cling are abominable falsehoods and blasphemies, but I also realize I don't have any more power to cause you to see this than I have to raise a man from the dead.

Wow, Diamond, I am impressed, while telling me you think I am wrong you are being polite about it, I am impressed this is such a high level of manners, politeness, and above all recognition that I just might have a differing perspective than yours, sir my hat is off to you.

That said, I feel the same way about many of the doctrines held by "Orthodox Christians" but I also recognize the agency that has been given to them by God, and respect them as the children of God I believe them to be. Thank you, for the refreshing change of tone.

You Said: You are not answerable to me, after all. You are free to believe and say what you want.

Thank you, and Of course I believe you have the right to believe as you wish, it's part of the Stated beliefs of my church:
The Articles of Faith

11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

You Said: I read and comment sometimes on threads that interest me. You can post to me or not, any time you want, as you see fit.

Thank you and of course you may ping or post to me, it will always be a pleasure to talk to someone who can disagree without being disagreeable.

You Said: MHG, if I had my druthers, I would let Delphi do the work to find the verses that call Jehovah, "Elohim".

Fine, I was hoping to make you show your cards first, but surely you know that Jehova sometimes appears in the name of God?

Exodus 6:3

3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.

So a scripture that merely lists names will not be a problem for a "True Scholar" of the Bible.

Either way, I appreciate the tone you bring to the forum, thank you.

DU

[Elsie]

Dang!

You’ve given it away!

We’ll have to post our stuff out in the open now!

[Elsie]

I do think that many of the doctrines to which you cling are abominable falsehoods and blasphemies...

Oh goodie!

Perhaps YOU can say just which ones those are, for OMM is having a bit of trouble pointing them out.

[Elsie]

It appears to be some sort of document defining the nature of God in language that is not clear nor is it intended to be clear.

...perhaps you can show me just what is so ABOMINABLE about that creed:

[Elsie]

...I tried to have public conspiracy once, it didn't work well.

It seems to work for the Liberals and the 'rats!

They tell folks EXACTLY what they will do; but for some unknown reason, their voters don't get it!

[Elsie]

Dang!

Did I ever mistype THAT reply!!

It was supposed to go to DU!

Something about those Italians probably messed it up.

It COULDN’T have been MY fault!

[Diamond]

So a scripture that merely lists names will not be a problem for a "True Scholar" of the Bible.

Exodus 6:3 is not the one of the verses I have in mind, though there's nothing wrong with that one. I'm not talking about Scriptures that only list names, I'm referring to specific verses that literally call Jehovah, "Elohim".

Cordially,

[MHGinTN]

Well, that convinces me I need to wait this out and not help the poster along. Thanks, Diamond.

[DelphiUser]

You redirected to me, Grin: Perhaps YOU can say just which ones those are, for OMM is having a bit of trouble pointing them out.

The Nicene Creed I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made.

Who, for us men and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and was made man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate; He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and sits on the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.

And I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of Life; who proceeds from the Father and the Son; who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; who spoke by the prophets.

And I believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; and I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

In order of appearance:

• being of one substance with the Father
• I believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church

These are the only points with which I believe Mormons will have heart burn about (not to be confused with a testimony, LOL!)

Mormons believe:

1. God and Christ are indeed one, but not of the same substance, they are one in heart might mind and strength.
2. Jesus Was part of the Godhead before time started, and will still be part of the Godhead still after time ends.
3. Jesus was in charge of all God's creations, so they are also his creations.
4. Jesus is God the Father's son in every way, literally, genetically (God did not have "relations" with Mary, Jesus was born of a virgin)
5. Jesus is the only mortal son of God the Father, who is also the father of all our spirits.
6. Jesus was the first born spirit as well as in the flesh.
7. All spirits are children of God, that makes us brothers (yes, including Me and you and Jesus, and Satan).
8. Most of this is codified in the Articles of Faith

There, happy?

Now, I suggest you pray about the Articles of Faith and the Nicene creed, and see which one God approves of (Oh, and if you believe the Nicene creed as posted, I hope you are Catholic, chuckle)

[Diamond]

[MHGinTN]

Yes, and there comes a time beyond which God will no longer strive with a man/woman, and then He gives them over to strong delusion. [ Should we add a childish chuckle or a grin, just to let the poor thing know to whom it is indirectly directed? ]

[DelphiUser]

“Perchance he for whom this bell tolls may be so ill, as that he knows not it tolls for him; and perchance I may think myself so much better than I am, as that they who are about me, and see my state, may have caused it to toll for me, and I know not that.” — John Donne