Mormon ousted as an apostate

East Valley Tribune—Phoenix, AZ, MSNBC ^ | Sept 23, 2007 | Lawn Griffiths

[colorcountry]

Being excommunicated for apostasy by the Mormon church is one thing, but Lyndon Lamborn is livid that his stake president has ordered bishops in eight Mesa wards to take the rare step of announcing disciplinary action against him to church members today. "I thought if he could go public, so can I," said Lamborn, a lifelong member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, who said his research into church history gave him "thousands of reasons the church can't be what it claims to be."

Stake President R. James Molina acknowledged Friday he intends to have Lamborn's excommunication announced to the wards at men's priesthood meetings and womens Relief Society gatherings, even with Lamborn now taking his case public. Molina, as well as officials at church headquarters in Salt Lake City, call such a public warning about an ousted member extremely rare. They say, however, church members must be protected from what discordant ex-followers may say to damage the church...................

[restornu]

Faith is more then good intend, a child of God is here to develope and walk in the ways of Lord!

Jesus came here to show those who could hear and listen what they need to do!

A covenant is still a contract an in order for it to be fulfilled, honored, there must be a meeting of the minds!

Many of you stll continue or still want to live under the lesser law (law of Moses letter of the law) and will receive a lesser law reward!

2 Nephi 2

1 And now, Jacob, I speak unto you: Thou art my first-born in the days of my tribulation in the wilderness. And behold, in thy childhood thou hast suffered afflictions and much sorrow, because of the rudeness of thy brethren.

2 Nevertheless, Jacob, my first-born in the wilderness, thou knowest the greatness of God; and he shall consecrate thine afflictions for thy gain.

3 Wherefore, thy soul shall be blessed, and thou shalt dwell safely with thy brother, Nephi; and thy days shall be spent in the service of thy God. Wherefore, I know that thou art redeemed, because of the righteousness of thy Redeemer; for thou hast beheld that in the fulness of time he cometh to bring salvation unto men.

4 And thou hast beheld in thy youth his glory; wherefore, thou art blessed even as they unto whom he shall minister in the flesh; for the Spirit is the same, yesterday, today, and forever. And the way is prepared from the fall of man, and salvation is free.

5 And men are instructed sufficiently that they know good from evil. And the law is given unto men. And by the law no flesh is justified; or, by the law men are cut off. Yea, by the temporal law they were cut off; and also, by the spiritual law they perish from that which is good, and become miserable forever.

6 Wherefore, redemption cometh in and through the Holy Messiah; for he is full of grace and truth.

7 Behold, he offereth himself a sacrifice for sin, to answer the ends of the law, unto all those who have a broken heart and a contrite spirit; and unto none else can the ends of the law be answered.

8 Wherefore, how great the importance to make these things known unto the inhabitants of the earth, that they may know that there is no flesh that can dwell in the presence of God, save it be through the merits, and mercy, and grace of the Holy Messiah, who layeth down his life according to the flesh, and taketh it again by the power of the Spirit, that he may bring to pass the resurrection of the dead, being the first that should rise.

9 Wherefore, he is the firstfruits unto God, inasmuch as he shall make intercession for all the children of men; and they that believe in him shall be saved.

10 And because of the intercession for all, all men come unto God; wherefore, they stand in the presence of him, to be judged of him according to the truth and holiness which is in him. Wherefore, the ends of the law which the Holy One hath given, unto the inflicting of the punishment which is affixed, which punishment that is affixed is in opposition to that of the happiness which is affixed, to answer the ends of the atonement—

11 For it must needs be, that there is an opposition in all things. If not so, my first-born in the wilderness, righteousness could not be brought to pass, neither wickedness, neither holiness nor misery, neither good nor bad. Wherefore, all things must needs be a compound in one; wherefore, if it should be one body it must needs remain as dead, having no life neither death, nor corruption nor incorruption, happiness nor misery, neither sense nor insensibility.

12 Wherefore, it must needs have been created for a thing of naught; wherefore there would have been no purpose in the end of its creation. Wherefore, this thing must needs destroy the wisdom of God and his eternal purposes, and also the power, and the mercy, and the justice of God.

Lurker this is vital to ponder these things from the Lord and how they will help man to see his mission here on earth and read the rest of the chapter of 2 Nephi 2: 13-30

Morm. 9: 21-37

27 O then despise not, and wonder not, but hearken unto the words of the Lord, and ask the Father in the name of Jesus for what things soever ye shall stand in need. Doubt not, but be believing, and begin as in times of old, and come unto the Lord with all your heart, and work out your own salvation with fear and trembling before him.

28 Be wise in the days of your probation; strip yourselves of all uncleanness; ask not, that ye may consume it on your lusts, but ask with a firmness unshaken, that ye will yield to no temptation, but that ye will serve the true and living God

Doc & Cov 29 is counsel to Joseph Smith and to the inhabitants of the earth!

1 Listen to the voice of Jesus Christ, your Redeemer, the Great I Am, whose arm of mercy hath atoned for your sins;

2 Who will gather his people even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, even as many as will hearken to my voice and humble themselves before me, and call upon me in mighty prayer.

[restornu]

You really should read more on Justice and Mercy!

David had the fullness of the light and than later in life went against the light because being in a fallen to state committed murder and because of this willful act he did go against the light which is the Holy Spirit and that is why it is blasphemy!

Heb. 10
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

***

Luke 12 Jesus teaches: Beware of hypocrisy; lay up treasures in heaven, rather than on earth; prepare for the coming of the Lord; where much is given, much is required; preaching the gospel causes division.

9 But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God.

10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

11 And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say:

12 For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.

You remember what happen to Judas Iscariot when he denied and sold out the Lord for 30 pieces of silver!

Because he betraying Jesus, Judas Iscariot also did go against the Light!

Believing or being aware is not enough you have to have received a witness from the Holy Spirit and than go against the light, else wise one is living under the lesser law not the Spirit of the Lord.

After one receives the witness than they should learn and strive to maintain to walk in the state of righteousness live under the higher law!

Through the atonement of Jesus Chirst that enables man to do the will of the Lord!

bbl

[greyfoxx39]

Faith is more then good intend, a child of God is here to develope and walk in the ways of Lord! Jesus came here to show those who could hear and listen what they need to do!
A covenant is still a contract an in order for it to be fulfilled, honored, there must be a meeting of the minds!

Many of you stll continue or still want to live under the lesser law (law of Moses letter of the law) and will receive a lesser law reward!

You guys just don't GET it! Resty has told you over and OVER that mormons are more SPECIAL because they have the HIGHER LAW!

You all are just spinning your wheels and wasting time because laws of evidence simply do not apply to those who are living under the HIGHER LAW.

[Osage Orange]

She still MURDERED him, restornu. Murdering is still prohibited in Christianity.

It was only justifiable because of the imminent threat he placed upon her and her body.

Seems to me...that IF...she was defending herself..that would qualify as "she killed him, in self-defense." Not murder...

If your theory/thinking held...then wouldn't all soldiers be "murder's", and breaking one of the Ten?

[tantiboh]

~”Nice tangent, but the facts remain - You’ve claimed COMMANDS WERE GIVEN.

You’ve shown NONE, so quit making false statements.”~

You show me the post where I said that those commands were explained in the Bible.

I’ve clearly stated that we believe this because it is found in modern revelation. We are speaking about LDS doctrine, after all - and not everything we believe is clearly set forth in the Bible. If you’d like me to produce those verses from modern revelation, I’ll be more than happy to.

In the meantime, I refuse to recant statements I believe are true simply because you don’t accept my sources.

[tantiboh]

Good find, restornu

[tantiboh]

Good rebuttal, Colo. I must admit, you’ve put me in my place on many of these points. I’ll study the matter further.

It’s another opportunity for me to get to the bottom of the matter and thereby increase my faith. That seems to keep happening with all these accusations made against my faith. It’s why I keep doing this.

[tantiboh]

~”BUT, if anything DISAGREES with the Bible, or a modern interpretation of it, it had better be REALLY certifiable.”~

What, in your view, meets this standard?

[tantiboh]

~”Does the LDS organization consider abortion to be murder??”~

Yes. It is also an excommunicable offense. I do believe there may be remarkable circumstances, such as grave danger to the life of the mother, where exceptions are made; but as a rule, the practice of abortion is condemned in the strongest terms by the LDS Church.

Here’s an article that explains the LDS perspective on abortion:
http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/daily/sexuality/abortion.html

[MHGinTN]

If you really mean the following quote as a desire to know the Way of God for your spirit, thus your soul, and your body, Read past your quote and chew on the words of Luther in his preface to teaching the Book of Romans: "It’s another opportunity for me to get to the bottom of the matter and thereby increase my faith." tantiboh

You must not understand the word law here in human fashion, i.e., a regulation about what sort of works must be done or must not be done. That's the way it is with human laws: you satisfy the demands of the law with works, whether your heart is in it or not. God judges what is in the depths of the heart. Therefore his law also makes demands on the depths of the heart and doesn't let the heart rest content in works; rather it punishes as hypocrisy and lies all works done apart from the depths of the heart. All human beings are called liars (Psalm 116), since none of them keeps or can keep God's law from the depths of the heart. Everyone finds inside himself an aversion to good and a craving for evil. Where there is no free desire for good, there the heart has not set itself on God's law. There also sin is surely to be found and the deserved wrath of God, whether a lot of good works and an honorable life appear outwardly or not.

Therefore in chapter 2, St. Paul adds that the Jews are all sinners and says that only the doers of the law are justified in the sight of God. What he is saying is that no one is a doer of the law by works. ...

Outwardly you keep the law with works out of fear of punishment or love of gain. Likewise you do everything without free desire and love of the law; you act out of aversion and force. You'd rather act otherwise if the law didn't exist. It follows, then, that you, in the depths of your heart, are an enemy of the law. ... So then, you teach others but not yourself; you don't even know what you are teaching. You've never understood the law rightly. Furthermore, the law increases sin, as St. Paul says in chapter 5. That is because a person becomes more and more an enemy of the law the more it demands of him what he can't possibly do.

In chapter 7, St. Paul says, "The law is spiritual." What does that mean? If the law were physical, then it could be satisfied by works, but since it is spiritual, no one can satisfy it unless everything he does springs from the depths of the heart. But no one can give such a heart except the Spirit of God, who makes the person be like the law, so that he actually conceives a heartfelt longing for the law and henceforward does everything, not through fear or coercion, but from a free heart. Such a law is spiritual since it can only be loved and fulfilled by such a heart and such a spirit. If the Spirit is not in the heart, then there remain sin, aversion and enmity against the law, which in itself is good, just and holy.

You must get used to the idea that it is one thing to do the works of the law and quite another to fulfill it.  The works of the law are every thing that a person does or can do of his own free will and by his own powers to obey the law.  ... That is what St. Paul means in chapter 3 when he says, "No human being is justified before God through the works of the law."

[restornu]

Faith is more then good intend, a child of God is here to develope and walk in the ways of Lord! Jesus came here to show those who could hear and listen what they need to do!
A covenant is still a contract an in order for it to be fulfilled, honored, there must be a meeting of the minds!
Many of you stll continue or still want to live under the lesser law (law of Moses letter of the law) and will receive a lesser law reward!

***

You guys just don’t GET it! Resty has told you over and OVER that mormons are more SPECIAL because they have the HIGHER LAW!

You all are just spinning your wheels and wasting time because laws of evidence simply do not apply to those who are living under the HIGHER LAW.

_____________________________________________________________

Its understandable why many were weeded out they never studied the scriptures they let tradition of me teach them!

It is not Joseph’s Higher law,
it is the Law that Jesus came to fulfill!

****

Mathew 5
17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Luke 5
44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

Roman8
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Ether 12
6 And now, I, Moroni, would speak somewhat concerning these things; I would show unto the world that faith is things which are hoped for and not seen; wherefore, dispute not because ye see not, for ye receive no witness until after the trial of your faith.

7 For it was by faith that Christ showed himself unto our fathers, after he had risen from the dead; and he showed not himself unto them until after they had faith in him; wherefore, it must needs be that some had faith in him, for he showed himself not unto the world.

8 But because of the faith of men he has shown himself unto the world, and glorified the name of the Father, and prepared a way that thereby others might be partakers of the heavenly gift, that they might hope for those things which they have not seen.

9 Wherefore, ye may also have hope, and be partakers of the gift, if ye will but have faith.

10 Behold it was by faith that they of old were called after the holy order of God.

11 Wherefore, by faith was the law of Moses given. But in the gift of his Son hath God prepared a more excellent way; and it is by faith that it hath been fulfilled.

3 Nephi 9
15 Behold, I am Jesus Christ the Son of God. I created the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are. I was with the Father from the beginning. I am in the Father, and the Father in me; and in me hath the Father glorified his name.

16 I came unto my own, and my own received me not. And the scriptures concerning my coming are fulfilled.

17 And as many as have received me, to them have I given to become the sons of God; and even so will I to as many as shall believe on my name, for behold, by me redemption cometh, and in me is the law of Moses fulfilled.

Matt. 10: 22 (22-33).
22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Mark 13: 13.
13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

2 Ne. 31: 20.
20 Wherefore, ye must press forward with a steadfastness in Christ, having a perfect brightness of hope, and a love of God and of all men. Wherefore, if ye shall press forward, feasting upon the word of Christ, and endure to the end, behold, thus saith the Father: Ye shall have eternal life.

Alma 32: 13 (13-15).
13 And now, because ye are compelled to be humble blessed are ye; for a man sometimes, if he is compelled to be humble, seeketh repentance; and now surely, whosoever repenteth shall find mercy; and he that findeth mercy and endureth to the end the same shall be saved.

3 Ne. 27: 6 (6-17).

6 And whoso taketh upon him my name, and endureth to the end, the same shall be saved at the last day.

7 Therefore, whatsoever ye shall do, ye shall do it in my name; therefore ye shall call the church in my name; and ye shall call upon the Father in my name that he will bless the church for my sake.

8 And how be it my church save it be called in my name? For if a church be called in Moses’ name then it be Moses’ church; or if it be called in the name of a man then it be the church of a man; but if it be called in my name then it is my church, if it so be that they are built upon my gospel.

9 Verily I say unto you, that ye are built upon my gospel; therefore ye shall call whatsoever things ye do call, in my name; therefore if ye call upon the Father, for the church, if it be in my name the Father will hear you;

10 And if it so be that the church is built upon my gospel then will the Father show forth his own works in it.

11 But if it be not built upon my gospel, and is built upon the works of men, or upon the works of the devil, verily I say unto you they have joy in their works for a season, and by and by the end cometh, and they are hewn down and cast into the fire, from whence there is no return.

12 For their works do follow them, for it is because of their works that they are hewn down; therefore remember the things that I have told you.

13 Behold I have given unto you my gospel, and this is the gospel which I have given unto you—that I came into the world to do the will of my Father, because my Father sent me.

14 And my Father sent me that I might be lifted up upon the cross; and after that I had been lifted up upon the cross, that I might draw all men unto me, that as I have been lifted up by men even so should men be lifted up by the Father, to stand before me, to be judged of their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil—

15 And for this cause have I been lifted up; therefore, according to the power of the Father I will draw all men unto me, that they may be judged according to their works.

16 And it shall come to pass, that whoso repenteth and is baptized in my name shall be filled; and if he endureth to the end, behold, him will I hold guiltless before my Father at that day when I shall stand to judge the world.

17 And he that endureth not unto the end, the same is he that is also hewn down and cast into the fire, from whence they can no more return, because of the justice of the Father.

18 And this is the word which he hath given unto the children of men. And for this cause he fulfilleth the words which he hath given, and he lieth not, but fulfilleth all his words.

19 And no unclean thing can enter into his kingdom; therefore nothing entereth into his rest save it be those who have washed their garments in my blood, because of their faith, and the repentance of all their sins, and their faithfulness unto the end.

20 Now this is the commandment: Repent, all ye ends of the earth, and come unto me and be baptized in my name, that ye may be sanctified by the reception of the Holy Ghost, that ye may stand spotless before me at the last day.

21 Verily, verily, I say unto you, this is my gospel; and ye know the things that ye must do in my church; for the works which ye have seen me do that shall ye also do; for that which ye have seen me do even that shall ye do;

22 Therefore, if ye do these things blessed are ye, for ye shall be lifted up at the last day.

23 Write the things which ye have seen and heard, save it be those which are forbidden.

24 Write the works of this people, which shall be, even as hath been written, of that which hath been.

25 For behold, out of the books which have been written, and which shall be written, shall this people be judged, for by them shall their works be known unto men.

26 And behold, all things are written by the Father; therefore out of the books which shall be written shall the world be judged.

27 And know ye that ye shall be judges of this people, according to the judgment which I shall give unto you, which shall be just. Therefore, what manner of men ought ye to be? Verily I say unto you, even as I am.

28 And now I go unto the Father. And verily I say unto you, whatsoever things ye shall ask the Father in my name shall be given unto you.

29 Therefore, ask, and ye shall receive; knock, and it shall be opened unto you; for he that asketh, receiveth; and unto him that knocketh, it shall be opened.

30 And now, behold, my joy is great, even unto fulness, because of you, and also this generation; yea, and even the Father rejoiceth, and also all the holy angels, because of you and this generation; for none of them are lost.

31 Behold, I would that ye should understand; for I mean them who are now alive of this generation; and none of them are lost; and in them I have fulness of joy.

32 But behold, it sorroweth me because of the fourth generation from this generation, for they are led away captive by him even as was the son of perdition; for they will sell me for silver and for gold, and for that which moth doth corrupt and which thieves can break through and steal. And in that day will I visit them, even in turning their works upon their own heads.

33 And it came to pass that when Jesus had ended these sayings he said unto his disciples: Enter ye in at the strait gate; for strait is the gate, and narrow is the way that leads to life, and few there be that find it; but wide is the gate, and broad the way which leads to death, and many there be that travel therein, until the night cometh, wherein no man can work.

[Pan_Yans Wife]

My intent was to show that taking another life is murder... it is killing.

The ten commandments don’t say “Thou shall not kill, but when it comes to war, go ahead.”

I would never claim that the instance I mentioned about the woman who killed her husband was not “justifiable homicide.”-— If that is the legalese term that the law recognizes.

[restornu]

I beg to differ. While there was never a commandment, “Thou shalt be polygamous,” the precedent is clear, particularly in the Old Testament.

Absolutely pathetic justification for polygamy (the list of Biblical verses you came up with, Tanty). You need to (a) Re-check your assumptions (many of these women were never married in an era where “bridal weeks” were mentioned), nor was God the director of such relationships; (b) You don’t read contexts very well...like 2 Chron. 13 & 24; Deut 21; Ex. 21; 1 Kings 11, etc.

Abraham (you cited Gen. 16:3; Gen. 25:1; Gen. 25:6):

Response: Please tells where in Gen. 16:3 re: Hagar, or anywhere that Hagar is ever referred to as a wife or anything but a maidservant? Unless you think Sarai is “god,” where did God ever instruct Abram to sleep with her? Where in Gen. 25:1 or thereabouts did God instruct Abraham to take another wife as he did with Keturah? (And, since you cited Abraham’s household roster additions to include “concubines” according to Gen. 25:6, we’re to suppose by your same logic that “God told Abraham” to take up with concubines, too?)

**********

It has always been known and discussed in MS religion that Abraham marriage to Hagar was a symbol of this world where the marriage to Sarai was under Covenant.

Hagar always represented the world!

[tantiboh]

I do not believe it’d necessary to get into the faith vs. faith & works debate again at this time. We both understand the other’s point of view on the matter.

That said, it has been my experience, as I have engaged in these kinds of conversations over the last months, that every time I have encountered a criticism of the LDS Church that seemed valid on the surface, I have researched it. Every time, it has fallen apart. And every time, my heart rejoices in the truth of God, and my faith in His work has increased.

It’s a selfish endeavor. I cannot convince the Church’s detractors that their viewpoints are without a firm foundation; they don’t want to hear it. I do so because it gives me an opportunity to articulate and understand the reasoning behind various arguments, and it increases my knowledge and my testimony as a result. I’ve resolved a number of personal conflicts in recent months because of the exercise.

I’ve reached the point where attacks against my faith no longer bother me on a personal level, because I’m confident that those attacks will be debunked in my mind. They have been every time before. All I need do is pray for guidance and study out the truth. The Lord is mindful of me and of my needs, and so I will, sooner or later, come across the answers I seek.

The phrase “line upon line, precept on precept” is used to describe this phenomenon in LDS circles. Why should I fret over what I don’t know? With faith and patience, my experience is that it will be made clear to me in the Lord’s time.

I suspect that this point of view is common amongst those of us who work to defend our faith in forums such as this. I know it drives our opponents crazy. That is a bit of its own reward, as well.

/tangent

[Pan_Yans Wife]

How can you tell, resty?

Do people with this “complete knowledge of the light” walk around with a far-away look, a glow that eminates from their bodies? Do they have long flowing robes and beautiful blond hair and blue eyes?

How can YOU a mortal, tell who has received “complete knowledge of the light”?

And lastly, what IS “complete knowledge of the light”?

[Pan_Yans Wife]

Justic and mercy are my watchwords, resty.

Have you noticed that I remain civil towards you, even when you respond in anger and frustration?

[MHGinTN]

Resty, here is a clue to the passage from Romans you posted: Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

In the underlined words from the King James, the same Greek word ['sarx', here meaning the body and the behavior mechanism or soul, human nature] is used in Paul's text from the Greek! This same 'flesh' is what Luther explains is trying to do the works of the law but is at emnity to God's Law because the doing is not generated because of God in the spirit of the doer but generated out of a fear of retribution or not earning a reward for the works. Until you grasp that disposition toward God in spirit which changes the soul and body acivity, you will continue to prattle on with many quotes, all directed to substantiate a false premise of 'all that we can do, then the salvation comes'.

[MHGinTN]

"The Lord is mindful of me and of my needs, and so I will, sooner or later, come across the answers I seek."

Um, if you have a closed heart you will not recognize the answer when it is offered. I will stop posting to you for fear that my prayerful offerings to you are actually hardening your darkened heart as you refuse to read for comprehension by comparison. Pax vobiscum

[greyfoxx39]

It is not Joseph’s Higher law, it is the Law that Jesus came to fulfill!

Oh? Then why do you keep insisting that the only way the law can be fulfilled is the MORMON way? And why do you keep threatening those of us who do not subscribe to the MORMON way with eternal damnation, and with the judgement of Joseph Smith to come?

SHOW US the Bible reference that states that Jesus' law is the law you keep referencing, and explain just HOW the "Higher Law" is being lived by YOU (mormons) and the "lower law" by US?

Believing or being aware is not enough you have to have received a witness from the Holy Spirit and than go against the light, else wise one is living under the lesser law not the Spirit of the Lord.

After one receives the witness than they should learn and strive to maintain to walk in the state of righteousness live under the higher law!

Explain exactly WHAT you mean by "state of righteousness living under the higher law" if it is NOT "living the state of righteousness as demanded by the LDS doctrines.

Through the atonement of Jesus Chirst that enables man to do the will of the Lord!

Show us how Jesus' Atonement is dependent on living YOUR "Higher Law".
Posted by restornu to Pan_Yans Wife On Religion 09/30/2007 6:28:42 AM MDT · 462 of 478

The continual excuse of "living the higher law" is not an acceptable answer to debate points unless this excuse can be proven to be of sound scriptural origin, and PROVEN to be lived by one group of people over another.

Prove then, with references from the Bible only, not from LDS-approved scripture, your often made declaration that those who oppose you are "living under the lesser law". And, what is YOUR authority to judge the way WE live?

This holding yourself to be above Christians is almost akin to Tantiboh's post, Many truly good, earnest people are led astray by their refusal to accept this one simple principle. They stumble because the philosophies of men teach them to trust in the arm of flesh - manifest in the dogmas, traditions, and religious philosophy surrounding them - rather than in the arm of God - manifest (partly) in the revelation of the Holy Spirit to confirm the truths learned in scripture and the teachings of the prophets. But, then, many be called, but few chosen.

All this is why I say that the precepts of mainstream Christianity are as dross to me when compared to the pure, refined, abundant truth of God of which I have sampled. I have found a fine diamond, whereas others have only found a lump of coal.

Is it any wonder, then, that you find me entirely intransigent on such things?

Romney's conservative manifesto, 173 posted on 09/24/2007 4:57:49 PM MDT by tantiboh

My final question is this. If this is the common attitude held by members in the COJCOLDS, WHY then do any of you desire to be acknowledged as members of the larger Christian community, which, as many posts here suggest, you hold us all to be "lesser"? I have asked this before. Perhaps you can answer this, resty...or do you really WANT to be?

[rightazrain]

“My final question is this. If this is the common attitude held by members in the COJCOLDS, WHY then do any of you desire to be acknowledged as members of the larger Christian community, which, as many posts here suggest, you hold us all to be “lesser”? I have asked this before. Perhaps you can answer this, resty...or do you really WANT to be?”

An excellent question, greyfoxx. It is simply, in my opinion, a false face to Christians who reject the Mormon teachings.

I remember, when attending the Mormon church, being boasted to repeatedly, “Others have the Bible. We do too, but we have the Book of Mormon also.”

Of course, at the time, I was being given “milk, not meat.” I had no idea of the other doctrines that are so science-fiction strange.

Another example of pure vanity: I remember attending a stake meeting, and a leader leaned against the podium and declared, “Mormon women are the most beautiful women in the world!”

I’ve never heard anything like this in a Christian church.
Jesus Christ asks us to focus on Him, and His perfect sacrifice on the cross for all of our sins. Pride is the sin of Lucifer (who is NOT the brother of Jesus, btw.)