Posted on 09/22/2007 7:43:55 PM PDT by Terriergal
Interesting. I seem to have gotten under someone’s skin.
Warren Smith is awesome. I read that one too and I just finished his “The Light That Was Dark.”
Don't forget the Orthodox Church, the Southern Baptist Convention, the Assemblies of God, the Lutheran Church (Missouri Synod), the Prebyterian Church in America, etc. (not to mention many, many smaller churches and nondenominational churches). Many Christians are holding the line and remain unassailable.
“The Light That Was Dark.” is another book I’ve handed out to folks. Too many folk think they are walking in the light when it’s a mere fabrication of Satan.
yes, they’ve been grieviously deceived.
You say many Christians are holding the line. In fact it is almost always the smaller denominations within a denominational family which is holding the line. Among Lutheran bodies, the largest is pro-gay. LCMS is the smaller body. The Presbyterian Church in America is much smaller than PCUSA. Only the Southern Baptists are the majority within their denominational family.
Furthermore, there is no guarantee these churches will remain faithful. Protestant Churches are notoriously fickle over the course of generations. In the 1940’s the Episcopal Church was known as the Republican Party at prayer. Now they are the secular Democrats working in the lobby. How quickly things change.
Evangelicalism is showing the early signs of a profound change. Emergent Church is the first sign of the children of Evangelicals who are tired of the political and theologically simplistic harangue they are treated to weekly. Protestantism is famously unstable and subject to the latest trends, whimsy and marketing strategy.
So, no, in the long run, I dont count on Protestants to hold the line. They are ultimately unreliable.
That I overlooked the Orthodox Church is an error for which I apologize.
with the exception of the Southern Baptists.
I think where you might misunderstand Protestants is that we don't consider our religion to be Protestantism. We're Christians. It sounds like an obvious statement, but it's crucial to understanding why the latest trends -- which generally affect only a portion of the leadership, not church members as a whole (not Christian ones, anyway) -- have no impact on the individual Protestant parts of the Body of Christ.
That the Episcopal Church, for instance, ordained a gay bishop simply doesn't affect my faith or my willingness to hold the orthodox line. I haven't given in to whims or trends, some misguided leaders of the Episcopal Church have. I'm not saying it's not important, just that Protestants look at the failure of church leadership differently.
I love that the Roman Catholic Church as an institution generally holds the line on doctrine in spite of the latest wave of fashion (though, let's be fair, you've had your troubles too!). A Protestant who is serious about his faith will hold the line as well as any Catholic who is serious about his faith. It's just that the institution the Protestant takes most seriously, above all, is the Body of Christ, not the denomination.
You raise an important point, and it is one that I perhaps get wrong quite often. Let me see if I get the distinction straight.
Serious Catholic regard Church teaching as authoritative but should not assume that Protestants regard their denominations as having the same authority over them.
For serious Catholics, we understand the authoritative Church teaching as binding upon our consciences. Protestants apparently do not regard their churches’ teachings as authoritative or binding upon their consciences.
I find this distinction fascinating. Does it mean that there are no truly authoritative figures in Protestantism?
Forgive the use of the term Protestantism. I cannot use the word Christian here without including by definition Catholics and Orthodox Christians.
Correct. If a church is teaching something you don't believe, you're in the wrong place.
Does it mean that there are no truly authoritative figures in Protestantism?
Correct. The only recognized authority is Scripture. Like the Bearens, we search Scripture to see if someone's teaching or preaching is supported in it.
Much of what Catholics might consider to be anti-Catholicism is actually our "process". We don't just challenge all of the teachings of the Catholic Church, we put our own churches (and the churches of others) through the ringer.
That is interesting. I cant say it makes any sense to me. Churches that vote up or down on ancient teaching are just something I can grasp. Why would that be appealing? And having each individual person be the ultimate arbiter of the meaning of scripture again makes no sense to me? Why would Jesus leave things in such complete disarray?
Course it doesn't, because it's opposite of many or your church's core teachings.
Churches that vote up or down on ancient teaching are just something I can grasp.
I assume you meant they are something you "can't" grasp. Your church actually does it too, but the only "vote" the laity has is ignoring the parts of the Church's doctrine that doesn't connect. See cafeteria Catholic. I'm somewhat bemused by Catholics who swear the Catholic Church is infallible in dogma & then go on to decry portions of Vatican II.
Why would that be appealing?
How much depth do you want me to go into in answering this question?
And having each individual person be the ultimate arbiter of the meaning of scripture again makes no sense to me?
We don't figure we're gonna get a "Church teaching" pass at the Judgment. Face it, there are levels of understanding & belief in every single church, including your own & without Grace, all of us are pretty much screwed. Like you, we seek to see God's face & know His will. You figure we're going about it in the wrong way & visa versa. I'm comforted that He is the judge, not us.
Why would Jesus leave things in such complete disarray?
I think He knows our nature better than we know it ourselves & I know it's difficult to see from the outside looking in, but there's actually less "disarray" to it than you might think.
That is a very interesting explanation. It clarifies a lot of things for me. It makes me think that is how our colleges and universities became so intellectually dishonest. Guys stayed in college to avoid the draft, went to graduate school, stayed on as faculty where they could propandize young students with leftist hate talk.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.