Posted on 09/19/2007 1:23:46 PM PDT by NYer
Pardon me, but, since you seem to have a clear understanding, how does Lev. 19:18 differ from Lev. 19:19 “Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woolen come upon thee.”
Do you hold these verses equal?
Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD.
Leviticus 19:18, NIV
In the Book of Matthew 22:36, we read a question posed by one of the disciples to Jesus, "which is the greatest commandment in the law? ” And he said to him,
"You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets." (emphasis mine)
What did he mean by this? The first is from the Shema: Dt 6:4 “Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.”
The Father explained: Dt 6:6 “These words which I command you this day shall be upon your heart; and you shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise. And you shall bind them as a sign upon your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes. And you shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.”
This is an extremely powerful commandment. Jesus is telling us that we are to adore Him in every moment of our lives. We are to take our children from a very early age to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, to fill their hearts with Jesus. We are to talk about our love for Jesus when we sit in our house. When we sit down to dinner, we are to bless our food in His name and speak of Him. When we sit down in the evening, we are to open a Bible and reflect on His Word. We are to talk of our love for Jesus when we walk in our neighborhood or in a shopping mall. We are to talk of our love for Jesus when we go to bed in the evening and when we wake up in the morning. Our love for Jesus should be reflected in our actions and should be constantly before our eyes. Even the outdoor entryways to our home should reflect our love for Jesus, so that every passerby will know that in this house Jesus reigns as King.
The Second great commandment ...
Lv 19:18 “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
The Jewish sage Yohanan ben Zakkai, most respected among the founders of Yavneh, taught that “loving our neighbor” means we have to take care of our neighbor’s honor as much as our own, our neighbor’s property as much as our own. Yet the ancient Israelites did not even love themselves very much. God called them to what is best for themselves but they rebelled, hurting themselves.
Jesus raised this commandment dramatically. He said, Mt 5:43 “You have heard that it was said, ’You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’” The Hebrew Scriptures accepted hating the enemies of God. Ps 139:21 “Do I not hate them that hate Thee, O Lord? And do I not loathe them that rise up against Thee? I hate them with perfect hatred.” He changed Lv 19:18 “love your neighbor” to Mt 5:44 “Love your enemies,” expanding the range of our love from the neighborhood to the world. God loves all His covenant family; the most miserable refugee remains God’s image and likeness. Jesus told us, Mt 25:40 “As you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.” The “coveting” commandments, Ex 20:17 prohibiting near occasions of sin, prefigured our Lord’s raising several “love one another” commandments to new heights. The fifth commandment, Ex 20:13 “You shall not kill,” became, Mt 5:22 “Every one who is angry  shall be liable to judgment.” The sixth, Ex 20:14 “You shall not commit adultery,” became, Mt 5:28 “Every one who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.” The eighth, Ex 20:16 “You shall not bear false witness,” became, Mt 5:34 “Do not swear at all  Let what you say be simply ’Yes’ or ’No.’”
The Ten Commandments reflect Christ’s two great commands
In all of Torah, only ten commandments were written Ex 31:18 “with the finger of God.”
The first three teach us how to love God: “You shall worship the Lord your God and Him only shall you serve,” “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain,” and “Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.”
The remaining seven teach us how to love one another: “Honor your father and your mother,” “You shall not kill,” “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife,” and “You shall not covet your neighbor’s property.”
Not to deviate but I have a question. Are you familiar with the miracle of the scarlet thead that is mentioned in both the Talmud and Zohar?
Wow!! Thanks so much............I’m on it!!!
Bump to post #42.
Ok, what you both seem to be asking is why do we in the Church not follow all of the Levitical laws same as we follow the 10 Commandments? One answer might be that the Mosaic Law was given to Jews, not Gentiles, and me being a Gentile, I'm not sure why I would have to obey a set of laws that were not even given to me. But of course that argument wouldn't apply to Jewish Christians, so it's not a great one.
But I think the real answer lies in the character of the Messianic Age. Here's an excerpt from the Eschatology article from the Jewish Encyclopedia, with copious quotes from the Talmud:
A. New Law.Sorry for the garbled characters. Anyway, it seems clear that at least some Rabbis outside the Babylonian school were predicting that the ceremonial laws would no longer be applicable in the days of King Messiah.Whereas the Babylonian schools took it for granted that the Mosaic law, and particularly the sacrificial and priestly laws, will be fully observed in the Messianic time (Yoma 5b et al.), the view that a new Law of God will be proclaimed by the Messiah is occasionally expressed (Eccl. R. ii. 1; Lev. R. xiii., according to Jer. xxxi. 32)—"the thirty commandments" which comprise the Law of humanity (Gen. R. xcviii.). "Ye will receive a new Law from the Elect One of the righteous" (Targ. to Isa. xii. 3). The Holy One will expound the new Law to be given by the Messiah (Yalḳ. ii. 296, to Isa. xxvi.); according to Pes. xii. 107a, He will only infuse new ideas ("ḥiddush debarim"); or the Messiah will take upon himself the kingdom of the Law and make many zealous followers thereof (Targ. to Isa. ix. 5 et seq., and Iiii. 11-12). "There will be a new covenant which shall not be broken" (Sifra, Beḥuḳḳotai, ii., after Jer. xxxi. 32). The dietary and purity laws will no longer be in force (Lev. R. xxii.; Midr. Teh. cxlvii., ed. Buber, note; R. Joseph said: "All ceremonial laws will be abrogated in the future" [Nid. 61b]; this, however, refers to the time of the Resurrection).
We see in Acts of the Apostles the reticence of Peter to abandon these aspects of the Mosaic Law, but the vision that he had convinced him otherwise. I'm speculating here, but probably also supporting that position for Peter and other Jewish Christians might have been a preexisting school of thought by some Rabbis that said that a new covenant would be made when the Messiah came (this is probably what Paul is very forcefully arguing in Hebrews and other places).
So here's a place where I think Jewish and Christian perspectives are not so different as they seem. If those Rabbis were right about the Messianic Age, then the abrogation of the ceremonial law would have been entirely expected, not anomalous. The only difference was that the Jewish Christians saw the Messianic Age as here and now, while the Jews placed it in the future.
In all of Torah, only ten commandments were written Ex 31:18 “with the finger of God.”
This is an interesting distinction. I hadn't ever thought about this. I had to check the text concerning the second set of commandments because I thought that G-d had written these too. (Exodus 34:1 The L-rd said to Moses, "Cut two stone tablets like the former, that I may write on them the commandments which were on the former tablets that you broke.) But apparently not. (Exodus 34:7-8 Then the L-rd said to Moses, "Write down these words, for in accordance with them I have made a covenant with you and with Israel." So Moses stayed there with the L-rd for forty days and forty nights, without eating any food or drinking any water, and he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.) It sort of leaves open the question whether the original ten commandments were also on the tablets; and what would be the reason for the one or two that are the same as in the first set.
But I'm also not sure what difference it makes whether G-d wrote it or Moses wrote it as the Bible does make clear that these were the word of G-d. Clearly the two verses cited by Jesus were not among the ones inscribed by G-d. And the fact that one commandment was elevated to the "greatest" does not abrogate the others, as I said earlier when observing that Hillel essentially said the same thing.
BTW, you never commented on my question about the L-rd's Day vs the Sabbath.
Are you familiar with the miracle of the scarlet thread that is mentioned in both the Talmud and Zohar?
I wasn't sure how to answer this. I'm only slightly familiar with the Talmud, and I really don't know much if anything about Zohar. But it rang a bell so I Googled "miracle of the scarlet thread," and the results mostly showed that it wasn't what I thought I remembered. It also showed that there is a reference to it in Mishna Yoma which I have read, and some of which is excerpted in the liturgy we read tomorrow. I'll be sure to pay close attention. But I also came across the book by Richard Booker, which by most accounts at Amazon seemed to be a book I should read so I put it on my shopping list. And I did also come across this site which is a Christian site which seems to understand the questions I am raising here.
ML/NJ
The Ten Commandments aren’t described by the term ‘commandments’ at all. ‘Aseret had’varim’ is ‘ten sayings’, ‘ten words’ or ‘ten things’. There are more than ten ‘commandments’ in the text!
This thread again proves that Christians believe what they believe based on the New Testament and their own traditions. Their citing of Jewish sources is just a meaningless word game that they imagine will sharpen their evangelizing skills.
Moses had to spend several periods of forty days in heaven to learn the ‘Ten Commandments’? Was he just that slow, or did he maybe learn some other stuff there?
It's no meaningless word game. Christianity quite literally hinges on the truth of Judaism; hence the keen interest we take in the latter.
So bottom line. There was a current of Talmudic thought that held that the ceremonial law would be abrogated at the coming of the Messiah. I have seen no indication that the scholars who thought this way were censured as unorthodox within Judaism--quite the contrary, their views were enshrined in the Talmud. So why censure Christians for the same thing? As everyone knows, we believe the Messiah has come, so our view on the Law is the logical consequence of that.
You're more than welcome. It is not uncommon for any of us, over the course of time, to become bogged down in ritual and lose sight of the how and why.
In all of Torah, only ten commandments were written Ex 31:18 “with the finger of God.”
This is an interesting distinction. I hadn't ever thought about this.
The founding fathers developed the US Constitution on the Ten Commandments. God, who is perfect, gave us a set of laws by which to live. Time and space become immaterial when one reflects on these Commandments (not recommendations :-). They are as valid today as they were 4000 years ago. History teaches us that those societies that sought to eradicate God from their culture, eventually collapsed. It is the Knights of Columbus that lobbied in the 50s to have the words "In God we Trust" placed on US coinage. It's important that we keep Him there and ever present in our daily lives.
BTW, you never commented on my question about the L-rd's Day vs the Sabbath.
In the beginning, when God created the heavens and the earth" (Gen. 1:1). That God’s creation was perfect is implied by the fact that on the seventh day he rested; he had accomplished everything in the way he desired. The Jewish concept that the number seven is the perfect number has developed from the creation story as well as from the Sabbath. That seven is the perfect number is reinforced by the septenary structure in the text of Genesis. Hebrew Genesis 1:1 has seven words and the second verse fourteen. Three nouns ("God," "heavens," and "earth") occur in the first verse and are repeated in the story in numbers divisible by seven: "God" thirty-five times; "earth" twenty-one times; and "heavens" twenty-one times. It is particularly significant that the seventh and last section (Gen. 2:2–3) which deals with the seventh day has in Hebrew three consecutive sentences (three for emphasis), each of which consists of seven words and contains in the middle the expression "the seventh day."
Sabbatarians (those who worship on Saturday) argue that God’s rest on the seventh day—since God obviously did not need to rest—was setting an example for man. But the word "Sabbath" is not found in Genesis and nothing is said about Adam and Eve resting. Moreover, in Eden God provided everything needed for the happiness of Adam and Eve and there was no work for them to do. Work entered into the world only as a part of the curse of sin: "Because you . . . have eaten from the tree . . . by the sweat of your face you shall eat bread" (Gen. 3:17–19). Prior to their sin, Adam and Eve were in God’s perpetual rest and fellowship; observance of a Sabbath would have been superfluous.
A more likely reason behind God’s seventh-day rest may be seen in a recurring theme of the creation story: "And there was evening and there was morning, a second day" (Gen. 1:5). This pattern is repeated for the first six days but missing on the seventh day, suggesting that God’s rest was not to establish one day per week of rest (though it did foreshadow the Sabbath), but to institute a time of perpetual rest and open fellowship with himself. In sanctifying the seventh day (Gen. 2:3) God sanctified his creation. He had made the perfect world and he blessed it.
When then was Sabbath instituted? For this we must go to Exodus 16:23–24: "Moses told [the Israelites], ‘That is what the Lord prescribed. Tomorrow is a day of complete rest, the Sabbath, sacred to the Lord. You may either bake or boil the manna as you please; but what ever is left put away and keep for the morrow.’" Thus, the first mention of Sabbath is in connection with the manna.
The Sabbath law is restated in the Ten Commandments: "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work; but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work . . . for in six days the Lord had made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy" (Ex. 20:8–11). In Genesis, God blessed the seventh day and made it holy; in Exodus God blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy. This verse of Exodus has been used to suggest that the Sabbath was instituted at the time of creation. But if God’s rest on the seventh day is viewed as the beginning of a time of perpetual rest and fellowship with man, this Exodus passage can be seen as ironical: The Sabbath was but an infinitesimal reminder of what man would have enjoyed had Adam not sinned.
There was a list of activities that were forbidden on the Sabbath: Do not go out of your place (Ex. 16:19); do not bake or boil (Ex. 16:23); do not do any work (Ex. 20:10); do not build a fire (Ex. 35:1,3); do not carry a load (Jer. 17:27, Neh. 1:15); do not buy or sell (Neh. 10:31); and do not do your own pleasure (Isa. 58:13–14). Rather on the Sabbath one should keep the day holy (Ex. 20:8); rest (Ex 31:15); observe or celebrate the day (Ex. 31:16); and delight in the Lord (Isa. 58:14). The Sabbath laws given to the Israelites told them to behave very much as Adam and Eve behaved in Eden. It is also interesting to consider that nearly all the prohibitions given in connection with the Sabbath would have been meaningless to Adam and Eve on that first seventh day before sin entered the world.
Though the Gospels report that Jesus observed the Sabbath, there are several incidents where he is accused of violating Sabbath law (Jn. 9:16, Jn 7:23, Mk. 3:4). It is interesting that in various passages the Lord restates all of the decalogue except for one commandment. "And Jesus replied, You shall not kill, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not bear false witness, honor your father and mother, and you shall love your neighbor as yourself" (Mt. 19:18–19). "It is written: ‘The Lord your God shall you worship, and him alone shall you serve’" (Mt. 4:10). Finally, "But I say to you, do not swear at all; not by heaven, for it is God’s throne" (Mt. 5:34). The commandment Jesus didn’t restate? To keep holy the Sabbath.
Our Lord defends his disciples when the Jews attacked them for not observing the Sabbath, ending his comments by saying: "For the Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath" (Mt. 12:1–8). Or again, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath" (Mk. 2:27). The fact that Jesus rebukes too severe an interpretation of Sabbath law (Lk. 13:10–16, 14:1–5; Jn. 5:9–18, 7:22) suggests that the he was not pleased with the way that the Sabbath was being observed.
Throughout the book of Acts, Luke reports mass conversions of the Jews in Jerusalem, and notes that many were devout Jews and priests (Acts 2:5,41; 6:7) who remained "zealous for the law" (Acts 21:20). There is no suggestion in the New Testament that these devout Christianized Jews gave up Sabbath worship. The church in Asia, with Paul as its teacher, was confronted by Jewish-Christians who insisted that new Christians be circumcised as Old Testament law commanded. The disciples met in Jerusalem in the year 49 to resolve this matter. At that Council of Jerusalem (Acts 15:10–21), Peter, James, and the other apostles set aside the law of circumcision, a law that was a sign of God’s covenental relationship with the chosen people and which was an "everlasting pact " (Gen. 17:13). While there was much debate in Jerusalem on whether or not Gentile Christians should be exempted from circumcision, the council was silent on the matter of Sabbath worship; this suggests that Sabbath versus Sunday worship was not an issue at that time.
Around the year 60, circumstantial evidence suggests that the Roman church began to worship on Sunday. For instance, in the year 50 the Christian church in Rome was considered to be a sect of Judaism; fourteen years later these same Christians were clearly understood to be distinct from the Jews. (Nero blamed the Christians for the fires in Rome in 64.) That such a sharp change could occur in this short span of time suggests that there was a significant external difference in the practices of the two faiths. The change of Christian worship from Sabbath to Sunday would certainly have allowed for this distinction.
The Council of Jerusalem’s decision on circumcision may have changed the way the early Church viewed Sabbath as well. One can almost hear the discussions of the Gentile Christians of the time: "Did not the Council of Jerusalem set aside the ‘everlasting’ law of circumcision? Should not the Church then set aside the other old covenant law—the Sabbath law?" Jewish Christians, similarly. would have questioned how many of the old covenant Sabbath regulations applied under the new covenant, for Sabbath rules were legion and varied from one rabbi to the next. Thus in the era following the Jerusalem Council it seems inconceivable that the apostles were not asked about the observance of the Sabbath.
Around the years 80–90, Christians were thrown out of the synagogues. This may have provided further stimulus for Christians to change their worship from Sabbath to Sunday. The apostle John wrote his gospel in this same time frame, significant because it provided for Christians an explanation of how God could change an "everlasting" law. John wrote how the world had been symbolically created anew in Jesus. One implication of this is that with the passion, death, and resurrection of Christ one eternity had ended and another had begun. God could therefore abrogate an everlasting law and still not contradict himself.
There is widespread belief among Christian scholars that the institution of Sunday worship occurred in the apostolic or post-apostolic age in commemoration of the Resurrection. The New Testament itself never calls Sunday the day of the Resurrection but consistently "the first day of the week." Moreover, nowhere does the New Testament suggest that the Lord’s Supper was celebrated in commemoration of Christ’s Resurrection. Neither do the earliest post-apostolic writings invoke the Resurrection as a reason for Sunday worship.
The Epistle of Barnabas (A.D. 130–135) is the first explicit mention of Lord’s day worship being based on the Resurrection. Barnabas writes: "Finally He [God] says to them: ‘I cannot bear your new moons and Sabbaths.’ You see what he means: It is not the present Sabbaths that are acceptable to me, but the one that I have made; on that Sabbath day, which is the beginning of another world. This is why we spend the eighth day in celebration, the day on which Jesus both arose from the dead and, after appearing again, ascended into heaven."
In the year 135 Jerusalem was sacked and the Roman emperor Hadrian prohibited Sabbath worship throughout the Roman Empire. Hadrian also prohibited anyone of Jewish descent from living in Jerusalem. A new Christian community was recruited for Jerusalem from other nations, and the bishops of Jerusalem until the mid–third century bore Greek and Roman names. Thus, after 135, even the Jerusalem Church worshiped on Sundays. Hadrian’s prohibition against Sabbath worship spelled the end of the Sabbath-or-Sunday problem for the early Church. Another council was not necessary.
I wasn't sure how to answer this. I'm only slightly familiar with the Talmud, and I really don't know much if anything about Zohar. But it rang a bell so I Googled "miracle of the scarlet thread," and the results mostly showed that it wasn't what I thought I remembered. It also showed that there is a reference to it in Mishna Yoma which I have read, and some of which is excerpted in the liturgy we read tomorrow. I'll be sure to pay close attention.
Please share what you learn.
“Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.”
Happy New Year!
I know this is a very belated continuation, but I finally obtained and had a look at Booker's Miracle of the Scarlet Thread. (Read the first 40 pages or so and skimmed the rest.) I guess I was expecting something else. The phrase "scarlet thread" or "crimson thread" (Heb: shani) began to jump off the pages when I encountered it. (First is at Gen 38:28 I think.) And so I was hoping Booker's book would be some examination of this phrase in a Christian context, but it wasn't. (The book is the author's examination or reading into the meaning of covenant specifically blood covenant and the only thing shani in there is the blood.)
ML/NJ
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