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To: Mad Dawg

The verse shows Jesus smacking down the beginnings of Marianism. It was desired to exalt Mary for bringing Him and He showed that simply being any old Christian is more blessed than the part that Mary had in His incarnation.


61 posted on 09/07/2007 9:44:08 AM PDT by DungeonMaster (John 2:4 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee?)
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To: DungeonMaster
This is your spin. It does not agree with the scripture, because Jesus did not stop the woman from venerating His mother, -- He taught us how to properly venerate her.
27 ... a certain woman from the crowd, lifting up her voice, said to him: Blessed is the womb that bore thee, and the paps that gave thee suck.
Here Mary is venerated for her physiological motherhood.

28 But he said: Yea rather, blessed are they who hear the word of God, and keep it.
Here the woman is corrected: Venerate her, and all who hear and keep the Word.

Does He mean every Christian? No, because the commandment to keep the Word is a difficult calling, "why call you me, Lord, Lord; and do not the things which I say?" (Luke 6:46).

63 posted on 09/07/2007 9:53:39 AM PDT by annalex
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To: DungeonMaster
And you guys say WE are far-flung in our interpretations of Scripture?

So When Mary says, "Behold, from now on (Dawg translation of "apo tou nun") all generations will call me blessed," Jesus would have added, "But, MOM, they'll be wrong!"

I think one of the great things about IHS's teaching is that he often turns things away from the "out there" to the "in here". So the end of the whole Good Samaritan story is," Go and do THOU likewise," and when somebody asks Him about the commandments He says,"What do YOU think?"

So I would go this far with you, that if somebody praises Mary and does not address his own relationship with Jesus and with God, that's perverse. And when somebody praises Mary in the anecdote, He doesn't let him off the hook, but challenges him to deal with his own relationship with God. "Enough about my mother, where are YOU when it comes to obedience?" That's the Jesus I love and admire. What a great teacher!

So it's not so much that "simply being any old Christian (and WHY do we have to bring up my age?)is MORE blessed ...." IMHO It's that "my" blessedness is my business, and comparing it to anyone else's is silly.

But when I rejoice in God's grace to Mary (or to you, for that matter) it's not ducking my relationship with God or handing it over.

But if he says blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it, who has done so more than Mary? (And I would construe Μενουν ... as "No, you dope, HERE's the way to think about blessedness!")

I think people often duck the encounter with God. And yes, one could use devotion to Mary as a way to do that. One could use ANY devotion -- especially when accompanied by a sense that one's prayers are going to get one into heaven -- as a way to avoid that heart-to-heart in which one's own painfully deep neediness, moral and every other kind, meets the penetrating eye of God. To that extent, let all devotions be cast aside if they are "performed" with that attitude.

"Lilies that fester...," as I am fond of saying ...

66 posted on 09/07/2007 10:11:02 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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