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To: restornu

>>In the late 1970s, while teaching with the Brigham Young University Jerusalem program, I was invited to give a series of lectures (in Hebrew) on the subject of Mormonism at the University of Haifa. In one of the lectures, I displayed a chart outlining Joseph Smith’s major accomplishments. I intended to speak about each item on the list and, at the end, suggest that Joseph Smith fit the qualifications for the Messiah of Joseph expected by the Jews. But that turned out to be unnecessary. By the time I got through the top third of the list, I heard whispering among a group of orthodox Jewish students in the audience. They were saying, mashiah ben Joseph, “Messiah the son of Joseph.” [17] <<

This is the first time I’ve heard the phrase “Messiah of Joseph” - do you know if this means something other than the Messiah in general?


13 posted on 09/02/2007 3:53:45 PM PDT by gondramB (Preach the Gospel at all times, and when necessary, use words)
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To: gondramB

I first heard about this years ago in the 80’s listening to a Cleon Skousen talk, when he mention Joseph Klausner who was waiting for the 2nd Joseph which he had read in the Sumerian scripture.

14) For the Jewish tradition, see Joseph Klausner, The Messianic Idea in Israel from Its Beginning to the Completion of the Mishnah (New York: Macmillan, 1955), chap. 9,


15 posted on 09/02/2007 4:44:55 PM PDT by restornu (Most of Cyber Space passes through FR portals ~ Freepers Are Some Of The Most Aware People On Earth!)
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To: gondramB
Messiah Ben Joseph is an ancient Jewish prophecy/tradition.

Here’s a good Wikipedia article on it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messiah_ben_Joseph

19 posted on 09/02/2007 5:03:35 PM PDT by sevenbak (Many things Jesus did... the world itself could not contain books that should be written. John 21:25)
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To: gondramB
>>>This is the first time I’ve heard the phrase “Messiah of Joseph” - do you know if this means something other than the Messiah in general?

I don't have a direct answer to your question. I don't fully know what constitutes the Messiah ben Joseph belief of the Jews since this is the first time I have read about it oo.

However, Biblical names are used in more than one context. For example Christ is called a "last Adam" in the NT. The term "Elias" while referring to an OT prophet also refers to others in the Bible. They are both personal names and used in a titular sense.

Anointed refers specifically to the Savior as one of his personal names but it can also refer to one who saves in a more general sense. As in Isaiah where King Cyrus a non-covenant person is referred to as Anointed. He is called that not as a personal name (or as the "Savior" Jesus) but as a title for one who saves (through letting the jews return and rebuild their temple) and as a type of Christ.

GUIDE TO THE SCRIPTURES - Anointed One

Jesus is called the Christ (a Greek word) or the Messiah (an Aramaic word). Both words mean “the anointed.” He is the one anointed of the Father to be the Father’s personal representative in all things pertaining to the salvation of mankind.

Isaiah 45: 1 Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;

GUIDE TO THE SCRIPTURES Elias See also Elijah

There are several uses of the name or title Elias in the scriptures:

Elijah: Elias is the New Testament (Greek) form of Elijah (Hebrew), as in Matt. 17: 3-4, Luke 4: 25-26, and James 5: 17. In these instances, Elias was the ancient prophet Elijah whose ministry is recorded in 1 and 2 Kings. Forerunner: Elias is also a title for one who is a forerunner. For example, John the Baptist was an Elias because he was sent to prepare the way for Jesus (Matt. 17: 12-13)......

29 posted on 09/04/2007 1:13:59 PM PDT by Rameumptom (Gen X= they killed 1 in 4 of us)
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