Joseph Smith: The Lord's Anointed (LDS Caucus)

Maridian Magazine ^ | 2005 | By John A. Tvedtnes

[restornu]

CTR

[restornu]

Please there are plenty of other threads to drop snarky non product remarks.

Would like to have a discussion that maintains some decorum instead of sophomoric name calling!

[Grig]

Suddenly the thread is LDS Caucus and the anti reply is removed. Ignore my last email then.

[Admin Moderator]

Suddenly the thread is LDS Caucus

Since Romney has become a candidate the has been non-stop attacking of anything Mormon. They still have a right to discuss their religion in the religion forum on FR without trolling.
Thanks,
AM

[Grig]

You mistook me, I’m LDS too. I emailed restornu when I saw the thread appear without the ‘LDS Caucus’ in the title because I thought without that the thread would just attract trolls (like the one who posted the removed post).

After I sent that message I saw the title was updated to be LDS Caucus and that post was removed so what I sent to restornu was moot. I meant to send that post to restornu as a private reply, but didn’t realize I hit the wrong link.

[Admin Moderator]

No problem and thanks. RM is not around today so you’re all stuck with me ;-)

[MHGinTN]

Okay, so it is asserted that Joseph Smith is God's annointed prophet. Would one of the Mormons reading this thread please tell me what texts Smith used adding the eight hundred plus words to Genesis Chapter 50 qoted below?... Resty, I've listened to the four minute video link you've offered, it doesn't answer my question.

JOSEPH SMITH Version of the King James Bible … From LDS source http://scriptures.lds.org/en/jst/10 ; Note, the Smith additions to the Bible are italicized; Smith started with KJV text and added.

GENESIS 50: 24-38
Moses, Aaron, and Joseph Smith were all named in this prophecy of Joseph in Egypt. Also, Joseph prophesied that the Book of Mormon would become a companion to the record of Judah.

24 And Joseph said unto his brethren, I die, and go unto my fathers; and I go down to my grave with joy. The God of my father Jacob be with you, to deliver you out of affliction in the days of your bondage; for the Lord hath visited me, and I have obtained a promise of the Lord, that out of the fruit of my loins, the Lord God will raise up a righteous branch out of my loins; and unto thee, whom my father Jacob hath named Israel, a prophet; (not the Messiah who is called Shilo;) and this prophet shall deliver my people out of Egypt in the days of thy bondage.

25 And it shall come to pass that they shall be scattered again; and a branch shall be broken off, and shall be carried into a far country; nevertheless they shall be remembered in the covenants of the Lord, when the Messiah cometh; for he shall be made manifest unto them in the latter days, in the Spirit of power; and shall bring them out of darkness into light; out of hidden darkness, and out of captivity unto freedom.

26 A seer shall the Lord my God raise up, who shall be a choice seer unto the fruit of my loins.

27 Thus saith the Lord God of my fathers unto me, A choice seer will I raise up out of the fruit of thy loins, and he shall be esteemed highly among the fruit of thy loins; and unto him will I give commandment that he shall do a work for the fruit of thy loins, his brethren.

28 And he shall bring them to the knowledge of the covenants which I have made with thy fathers; and he shall do whatsoever work I shall command him.

29 And I will make him great in mine eyes, for he shall do my work; and he shall be great like unto him who I have said I would raise up unto you, to deliver my people, O house of Israel, out of the land of Egypt; for a seer will I raise up to deliver my people out of the land of Egypt; and he shall be called Moses. And by this name he shall know that he is of thy house; for he shall be nursed by the king’s daughter, and shall be called her son.

30 And again, a seer will I raise up out of the fruit of thy loins, and unto him will I give power to bring forth my word unto the seed of thy loins; and not to the bringing forth of my word only, saith the Lord, but to the convincing them of my word, which shall have already gone forth among them in the last days;

31 Wherefore the fruit of thy loins shall write, and the fruit of the loins of Judah shall write; and that which shall be written by the fruit of thy loins, and also that which shall be written by the fruit of the loins of Judah, shall grow together unto the confounding of false doctrines, and laying down of contentions, and establishing peace among the fruit of thy loins, and bringing them to a knowledge of their fathers in the latter days; and also to the knowledge of my covenants, saith the Lord.

32 And out of weakness shall he be made strong, in that day when my work shall go forth among all my people, which shall restore them, who are of the house of Israel, in the last days.

33 And that seer will I bless, and they that seek to destroy him shall be confounded; for this promise I give unto you; for I will remember you from generation to generation; and his name shall be called Joseph, and it shall be after the name of his father; and he shall be like unto you; for the thing which the Lord shall bring forth by his hand shall bring my people unto salvation.

34 And the Lord sware unto Joseph that he would preserve his seed forever, saying, I will raise up Moses, and a rod shall be in his hand, and he shall gather together my people, and he shall lead them as a flock, and he shall smite the waters of the Red Sea with his rod.

35 And he shall have judgment, and shall write the word of the Lord. And he shall not speak many words, for I will write unto him my law by the finger of mine own hand. And I will make a spokesman for him, and his name shall be called Aaron.

36 And it shall be done unto thee in the last days also, even as I have sworn. Therefore, Joseph said unto his brethren, God will surely visit you, and bring you out of this land, unto the land which he sware unto Abraham, and unto Isaac, and to Jacob.

37 And Joseph confirmed many other things unto his brethren, and took an oath of the children of Israel, saying unto them, God will surely visit you, and ye shall carry up my bones from hence.

38 So Joseph died when he was an hundred and ten years old; and they embalmed him, and they put him in a coffin in Egypt; and he was kept from burial by the children of Israel, that he might be carried up and laid in the sepulchre with his father. And thus they remembered the oath which they sware unto him.

[gondramB]

>>>No problem and thanks. RM is not around today so you’re all stuck with me ;-)<<

Ummm Before RM left s/he said it ok if we had a party. :)

[Between the Lines]

The Divine must be scraping the barrel to select people that far down the chain of virtue.

Moses was a murderer and had a speech impediment. David was a murderer and adulterer. Isaiah was a man of unclean lips. The word Jacob means trickster. He lied to his own father stealing his brother’s birthright. Yet in the end, God changed his name to Israel and named his family after him. Peter denied Christ. Paul persecuted Christians.

And yet God still worked through these men for his purposes and glory. Through God's power, their points of weakness became their greatest strengths. God uses people in spite of their shortcoming; he uses imperfect vessels to deliver and complete a perfect work, that we may know that this is not of men but could only be God's doing.

Brothers, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, so that no one may boast before him. It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. Therefore, as it is written: "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord." - 1 Corinthians 1:26-31

[gondramB]

>>In the late 1970s, while teaching with the Brigham Young University Jerusalem program, I was invited to give a series of lectures (in Hebrew) on the subject of Mormonism at the University of Haifa. In one of the lectures, I displayed a chart outlining Joseph Smith’s major accomplishments. I intended to speak about each item on the list and, at the end, suggest that Joseph Smith fit the qualifications for the Messiah of Joseph expected by the Jews. But that turned out to be unnecessary. By the time I got through the top third of the list, I heard whispering among a group of orthodox Jewish students in the audience. They were saying, mashiah ben Joseph, “Messiah the son of Joseph.” [17] <<

This is the first time I’ve heard the phrase “Messiah of Joseph” - do you know if this means something other than the Messiah in general?

[Admin Moderator]

Ummm Before RM left s/he said it ok if we had a party. :)

Ok, but beer and wine only, no hard liquor.

[restornu]

I first heard about this years ago in the 80’s listening to a Cleon Skousen talk, when he mention Joseph Klausner who was waiting for the 2nd Joseph which he had read in the Sumerian scripture.

14) For the Jewish tradition, see Joseph Klausner, The Messianic Idea in Israel from Its Beginning to the Completion of the Mishnah (New York: Macmillan, 1955), chap. 9,

[gondramB]

Hey, that’s only fair, it is the Religion forum. :)

[gondramB]

Thank you for that name. Fascinating Wikipedia article.

>>One of his most influential books was about Jesus. The book Jesus of Nazareth, and its sequel, From Jesus to Paul, gained him some celebrity. In it, Klausner described how Jesus was best understood as a Jew and Israelite who was trying to reform the religion, and he died as a devout Jew. He was attacked about this issue as much by Christians as by Jews. The book was considered to be so informative by Herbert Danby, an Anglican priest, that he translated the work from Hebrew into English so that English scholars might avail themselves of the information contained within this book. A number of clergymen were so incensed at Danby for translating this controversial work that they demanded his recall from Jerusalem.

[restornu]

I will salute you with my Sparkling Apple Cider...

Cheers!:)

[sevenbak]

Messiah Ben Joseph is an ancient Jewish prophecy/tradition.

Here’s a good Wikipedia article on it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messiah_ben_Joseph

[43north]

I live among lots of LDS people. They are truly decent folk but when we talk religion I am convinced that if Joseph Smith were alive today he would be:

1) A mystic
2) A politician
3) A realtor
4) A trial lawyer
5) All of the above

Their intentions are good but I think JS is a false prophet.

Still, I’d rather that they have my back than a follower of allah!