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Tyranny of Words (Catholic liturgy - NO vs. TLM)
The Cafeteria Is Closed ^ | August 19, 2007 | Gerald Augustinus

Posted on 08/19/2007 6:41:43 AM PDT by maryz

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I put the introductory section in italics so as not to have to put the rather lengthy excerpt in blockquotes.
1 posted on 08/19/2007 6:41:45 AM PDT by maryz
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To: Frank Sheed; NYer; sneakers; magisterium

I thought you’d like this!


2 posted on 08/19/2007 6:42:40 AM PDT by maryz
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To: Religion Moderator

I meant to put “(Catholic liturgy - NO vs. TLM)” after the title. Could you do this please, if you have a chance?


3 posted on 08/19/2007 6:45:47 AM PDT by maryz
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To: livius

I think there’s a lot in this piece you’d appreciate!


4 posted on 08/19/2007 6:50:43 AM PDT by maryz
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To: Religion Moderator

Thanks! That was fast! :)


5 posted on 08/19/2007 6:52:53 AM PDT by maryz
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To: maryz

maryz, thanks for the ping! Excellent article!

Still nothing said in my diocese, except one priest who has written several articles, on the diocesan website, about how we have a priest shortage and some people just don’t ‘get it’. (I e-mailed him previously - I wonder if I’m one of those people he’s talking about?) Also, my parish priest sent an e-mail that he has not received a ‘directive’ from the bishop regarding a Latin mass and that there wasn’t going to be any in our diocese ‘as far as he knows’. No encouragement there!

Anyway - that’s the latest. Thanks again for the excellent article! Our church is noisy before and after mass. There is no color. It is bland and plain. The tabernacle is bland and plain. Not a suitable throne for our King at all. There is rarely incense. I guess I just keep hoping and praying. I take heart from favorable reports from other places in the country and hope that has an influence here! :-)


6 posted on 08/19/2007 7:46:08 AM PDT by sneakers (This Pennsylvania gal supports DUNCAN HUNTER for President!)
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To: sneakers
some people just don’t ‘get it’. (I e-mailed him previously - I wonder if I’m one of those people he’s talking about?)

Like the woman on Fr. Z's blog who said she wrote a letter to her pastor requesting a TLM, so he couldn't say he hadn't gotten any requests -- he'd have to at least say he'd gotten a request from one nut! And what's this with a "directive" from the bishop? Didn't he read the MP? ;-)

I haven't heard anything definite around here either -- I gather there's some movement, but it's sort of sub rosa for time being, at least until September 14, since it's not exactly encouraged by the cardinal!

7 posted on 08/19/2007 8:13:08 AM PDT by maryz
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To: maryz

Great article. I especially like the part about the senses.


8 posted on 08/19/2007 8:45:28 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: maryz

Thanks for the ping! Yes, there is.

I was just thinking about some of these issues today, after Sunday mass. I live in a diocese where we recently received a very firm “NO” on the celebration of the TLM, including the forbidding of priests to say it as their private mass (fortunately, I think that’s unenforceable). I noticed the practice of the bishop who did this, and while he’s pretty orthodox in many ways, his mass is a prime example of all the points above.

He’s an inveterate ad-libber, obviously feeling that what it says in the actual text isn’t enough, he occasionally leaves parts out (I assume he does this intentionally), and he loves the candidate-for-an-Oscar reading style.

What this means to me is that even the priests themselves, even the most ardent defenders of the NO, such as our bishop, realize there is something lacking there.

They know the language is flat and dull (although our bishop has actually supported Trautperson’s criticism of the new translation coming out this fall as too “high flown” for the average drooling idiot - er, sorry, that would be parishioner - in the pew to understand). So they try to compensate.

They know that the scatter-shot effect of the unfocused, abbreviated readings means that most of the hearers turn their ears off, so they attempt to add drama in hopes that it will compensate and capture the attention of the listeners.

And the fact that there are numerous different canons and numerous different options for just about everything in the NO gives them the feeling that, after all, anything is permitted, and it’s really all about putting on a personal show based on their own choices and taste (or lack thereof).

I realized that one of the things that is most disturbing to them about the TLM is that it is an exact reversal of all these things, and they see it not simply as a challenge to the NO in general, but to the “personal mass” they have constructed individually within the NO.


9 posted on 08/19/2007 8:49:21 AM PDT by livius
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To: livius
What this means to me is that even the priests themselves, even the most ardent defenders of the NO, such as our bishop, realize there is something lacking there.

I had never seen it from that angle before, but I think you've really hit on something! I had just vaguely assumed that it was the vernacular that just made it too easy to freelance. But I see now I was thinking of means and not ends!

different options for just about everything in the NO gives them the feeling that, after all, anything is permitted

With some justification. I can't keep up with it all myself, and sometimes I find myself wondering "Is that really part of the Mass or is it made up on the spot?" (I refuse to use those Missalettes to follow something in my native tongue!)

not simply as a challenge to the NO in general, but to the “personal mass” they have constructed individually within the NO.

Yes! I do believe you've hit on something here. People get very attached to what they've "created." (When I taught sections of comp as a TA in grad school, one of the hardest -- and most important -- things to get across was that when I criticized their writing, I wasn't judging them, their hearts, their souls, their personhood.) What's that in Shakespeare? "A poor thing, but mine own." Only some of them seem to think "a wond'rous thing, and all mine own!"

10 posted on 08/19/2007 9:15:24 AM PDT by maryz
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To: Pyro7480; monkapotamus; ELS; Theophane; indult; B Knotts; livius; k omalley; Cavalcabo; sneakers; ..

Tridentine Ping List!

Summorum Pontificum Database Link from the Jimmy Akin Blog

Freepmail Frank Sheed if you want  ON/OFF  this list!

To find posts to this Ping List, just search Keyword: "Tridentine"


11 posted on 08/19/2007 9:20:11 AM PDT by Frank Sheed (Fr. V. R. Capodanno, Lt, USN, Catholic Chaplain. 3rd/5th, 1st Marine Div., FMF. MOH, posthumously.)
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To: maryz
How many celebrants consider the homily to be the climax of the liturgy and the barometer of the celebration? How many have the feeling that the celebration is more or less over after the Liturgy of the Word?

I have seen this done in fact as opposed to only in thought. There is a priest I know who devotes tremendous energy to the readings to the point of using Bibles distributed during Mass to go through a long homily dealing with what the readings convey. The rest of the Mass, the Liturgy of the Eucharist, is almost an afterthought.

12 posted on 08/19/2007 9:25:20 AM PDT by Frank Sheed (Fr. V. R. Capodanno, Lt, USN, Catholic Chaplain. 3rd/5th, 1st Marine Div., FMF. MOH, posthumously.)
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To: livius

Livius,

People follow mindlessly when they don’t know what alternatives there are. Right now, on EWTN, the routine Sunday N.O. Mass is one of the most solemn Masses you can ever see. Tell your “pew mates” to watch one! And then, wait for the Masses on the TLM coming on September 14.

It took 40 years to get here from there. Pope Benedict is backed by the Holy Spirit. That is how the situation should be.


13 posted on 08/19/2007 9:28:40 AM PDT by Frank Sheed (Fr. V. R. Capodanno, Lt, USN, Catholic Chaplain. 3rd/5th, 1st Marine Div., FMF. MOH, posthumously.)
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To: maryz
One of the personal issues I've long had with the Novus Ordo is what I'll call the "Tyranny of Movement", borrowing the phrase used in the article.

Stand up, sit down, kneel down, stand up........turn around shake hands, kneel down again, stand up......it just gets to me.

It's not so much all the words which I find unsettling as the continual need to change body posture. I find that far more disturbing to contemplative prayer.

One time at a daily Novus Ordo Mass I decided that I'd had enough and resolved to kneel all the way from the Sanctus to Holy Communion. There were few people in the Church and as I was way out the back, I figured it was no big deal. However, some woman saw me and at the "sign of peace" she walked halfway across the Church, put her hand on my arm and with a very sad expression on her face said "you obviously have some great sorrows or difficulties in your life!".

God bless her for her charity but apparently kneeling before the Blessed Sacrament now makes some people think you're a suicidal maniac.

14 posted on 08/19/2007 9:35:29 AM PDT by marshmallow
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To: Frank Sheed; AnAmericanMother
to the point of using Bibles distributed during Mass to go through a long homily

That is extreme -- and I'm the one who complained on another thread that the OT readings were not so valuable as they might be to people who have no background in the story and its significance. An American Mother said her pastor gives wonderful sermons, explicating the relationships between the Old and New Testament readings, but she did not give the impression that the rest of the Mass was just a footnote or something to him.

15 posted on 08/19/2007 9:40:40 AM PDT by maryz
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To: marshmallow
God bless her for her charity but apparently kneeling before the Blessed Sacrament now makes some people think you're a suicidal maniac.

LOL! And I mean that literally!

Oh, BTW, you left out bowing! ;-)

16 posted on 08/19/2007 9:43:08 AM PDT by maryz
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To: maryz; Frank Sheed
That IS extreme! Sounds like he might be more comfortable in the Church of Christ, where everybody brings their Bibles to church and follows along -- and they only have communion once a month or once a quarter . . . ?

The Mass is central in our parish -- I should have mentioned that the pastor or the 2 parochial vicars (one of whom preached today - our young black priest, a/k/a "Father Krunk") almost always work the Eucharist into the homily. Today he had his hands full with the Gospel, which is a tough one ("this is a hard saying - who can bear it?") so he mentioned neither the OT reading (Jeremiah and the cistern) nor the Eucharist. He did however mention the NT lesson - Paul's "cloud of witnesses" and "running the race with our eyes on Christ Jesus" in the context of the Gospel "I come not to bring peace but a sword." (yeah, that's KJV but the lectionary is awful in some spots, and that's one of them. The Greek is macaira - "a sword" and the Vulgate Latin is gladius - exactly the same.) "I come not to bring peace but division" is just clunky.

17 posted on 08/19/2007 10:20:55 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: marshmallow

Man, she is lucky she didn’t try that with me. Whatever I decided to do on the spur of the moment, it wouldn’t have been pretty! The nicest thing I can think of is giving her a really sad look right back and saying, “Well, I think we all need to make reparation for the disrespect shown to Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament!” But “Have you lost your cotton-pickin’ mind!?!?” right in the middle of church might have been what popped out . . . .


18 posted on 08/19/2007 10:24:20 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: AnAmericanMother
"I come not to bring peace but a sword." (yeah, that's KJV

I admit I sometimes "hear" a translation I like, rather than the NAB translation that's read. ;-)

So all your priests are great, not just the pastor? I'm sure you appreciate that!

19 posted on 08/19/2007 10:32:04 AM PDT by maryz
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To: maryz
We have got EXCELLENT priests!

Of course, our rector has been here for 20 years and is a well-known diocesan figure (he used to be Vicar-General) so it makes sense that he would get good help!

20 posted on 08/19/2007 10:50:20 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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