"Dr. Armageddon" and the Future of Israel

American Vision ^ | 7/31/2007 | Gary DeMar

[topcat54]

John Hagee’s “Christians United for Israel” held its annual meeting in Washington, D.C., last month (July 2007). Supporters of CUFI are looking forward to Armageddon. Of course, they believe they won’t be around to experience it. God will finally fulfill his covenant promises to Israel, but not until He wipes out millions of Jews and billions of others around the world in one final judgment. No wonder an increasing number of people fear “Dr. Armageddon” and his millions of followers. Could their political clout push us toward an all-out Mideast war? There are Jews who support Hagee and CUFI, but I bet they don’t know the whole story.
           
John Walvoord writes that these supposed future judgments will be “without parallel in the history of the world. According to Revelation 6:7 the judgments attending the opening of the fourth seal involve the death with sword, famine, and wild beasts of one fourth of the world’s population. If this were applied to the present world population now approaching three billion, it would mean that 750,000,000 people would perish, more than the total population of North America, Central America, and South America combined.”¹
           
Hal Lindsey supports Walvoord’s position, affirming that during the “great tribulation” there will be “death on a massive scale. It staggers the imagination to realize that one-fourth of the world’s population will be destroyed within a matter of days. According to projected census figures this will amount to nearly one billion people!”² Of course, with the latest census figures (6.6 billion), with the dispensational view in mind, about 1.65 billion people will die. Not only does the world come in for a beating under the dispensational hermeneutic, but Israel is specifically hit hard. Walvoord, with his view of a future post-rapture “great tribulation,” must claim that a large number of Jews living in Israel will be slaughtered. He writes:

The purge of Israel in their time of trouble is described by Zechariah in these words: “And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith Jehovah, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. And I will bring the third part into the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried” (Zechariah 13:8, 9). According to Zechariah’s prophecy, two thirds of the children of Israel in the land will perish, but the one third that are left will be refined and be awaiting the deliverance of God at the second coming of Christ which is described in the next chapter of Zechariah.³

Israel’s present population is around 7 million. If two-thirds of the Jews living in Israel at the time of the “great tribulation” are to die, this will mean the death of more than 4.5 million! In addition, there is continued immigration from the former Soviet Union supported by Christian organizations like “On Wings of Eagles.” Financial support is raised by Christians to fund Jewish settlements in the occupied territories. “‘This is a biblical issue,’ says Theodore T. Beckett, a Colorado developer who founded the Christian-sponsored, adopt-a-settlement program. ‘The Bible says in the last days the Jews will be restored to the nation of Israel.’“⁴ For every three people who enter, two of them will be killed during the dispensational version of the “great tribulation.” Why aren’t today’s dispensationalists warning Jews about this coming holocaust by encouraging them to leave Israel until the conflagration is over? Instead, we find dispensationalists supporting and encouraging the relocation of Jews to the land of Israel. For what? A future holocaust?
           
Israel was warned by Jesus to “flee to the mountains” (Matt. 24:16). The New Testament is filled with warnings about the coming A.D. 70 holocaust with no encouragement to take up residence in Jerusalem. In fact, there was a mass exodus from the city by those who understood the world-wide implications of the gospel message and the approaching destruction of what was the center of Jewish worship at the time (John 4:21–24).
           
Preterists believe that the events described in Matthew 24:1–34 were fulfilled in the events leading up to and including the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. “The guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom [they] murdered between the temple and the altar” (Matt. 23:35) fell upon the generation of Jews who “did not recognize the time of [their] visitation” (Luke 19:44) and crucified “the Lord of glory” (1 Cor. 2:8). How do we know this? Because Jesus told us: “Truly I say to you, all these things shall come upon this generation” (Matt. 23:36 and 24:34). No future generation of Jews is meant here. Hagee and his supporters are wrong and dangerous.

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1. John F. Walvoord, Israel in Prophecy (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan/Academie, [1962] 1988) 108.

2. Hal Lindsey, There’s a New World Coming (New York: Bantam Books, [1973] 1984), 90. Emphasis in original.

3. Walvoord, Israel in Prophecy, 108. Emphasis added.

4. Ann LoLordo, “Evangelical Christians Come to Jews’ Aid,” Atlanta Constitution (August 8, 1997), A8.

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Permission to reprint granted by American Vision P.O. Box 220, Powder Springs, GA 30127, 800-628-9460.

[topcat54]

You do realize that most Freepers are not preterists or partial preterists, don't you?

And I should be concerned about that why? The day truth is decided by Freeper polls is the day we all should pack it in.

[topcat54]

The missing element in our analysis is in failing to consider the entire chapter and how the apostles in the NT saw the fulfillment:

"28 And it shall come to pass afterward That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your old men shall dream dreams, Your young men shall see visions. 29 And also on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days."

Peter tells us in Acts 2 that this prophecy was fulfilled on the day of Pentecost.

"14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, "Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. 15 For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. 16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: 17 'And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your young men shall see visions, Your old men shall dream dreams. 18 And on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days; And they shall prophesy. 19 I will show wonders in heaven above And signs in the earth beneath: Blood and fire and vapor of smoke. 20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord. 21 And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the Lord Shall be saved.'"

Peter understood the prophecy as symbolically referring to the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the new covenant people of God. The prophet was announcing the "day of the Lord", that is, the end of the old covenant and the beginning of the new. God's people were receiving the blessing of the Holy Spirit, while the Jews who were obstinate and did not follow Messiah would soon be cut off, the "last days" of old Israel.

[Alamo-Girl]

I, for one, am not a preterist or partial preterist and have no interest in the theological argument.

But I'm sure you'll find plenty out there who'd like to debate it with you.

[Uncle Chip]

The missing element in our analysis is in failing to consider the entire chapter and how the apostles in the NT saw the fulfillment:

But this part that you cited was not fulfilled back in those days:

19 I will show wonders in heaven above And signs in the earth beneath: Blood and fire and vapor of smoke. 20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord. 21"

[topcat54]

But this part that you cited was not fulfilled back in those days:

Not according to Peter. I think the problem is that you are not approaching the prophecies in the same way that Peter and the other apostles did. If Peter did not believe that that those verses were being fulfilled in that day, the he might have stopped quoted from Joel at a more appropriate point. He did not. He was clearly not a "literalist" when it came to interpreting the OT prophecies. He saw them all as primarily being fulfilled in Christ's appearance and work back in those days.

It hard to get around the true meaning of Peter’s works unless you are willing to resort to a brute force disregard for what he was intending to say.

[topcat54]

I, for one, am not a preterist or partial preterist and have no interest in the theological argument.

Then why did you bother bringing it up? Just so you could pick a might between me and someone else?

[Alamo-Girl]

To the contrary, you posted to me at 128 vis-à-vis prophesy. And I do not recall in recent memory seeing you post on any subject other than pro-preterism and/or anti-dispensationalism.

[Uncle Chip]

Not according to Peter.... If Peter did not believe that that those verses were being fulfilled in that day, the he might have stopped quoted from Joel at a more appropriate point.

Yes according to Peter. He is only telling them that the outpouring of the spirit part is being fulfilled on that day---- not all the rest. Note the words "And" and "before" especially. Those words indicate sequential not simultaneous fulfillment.

He was clearly not a "literalist" when it came to interpreting the OT prophecies.

Right ---- and the signs in the heavens were not occurring on that day ---- only the outpouring of the Spirit --- and he was not looking up in the heavens above waiting for them to occur either.

Peter is merely citing Joel in full in order to provide the context for the outpouring of the spirit in light of a sequence of events that would precede the "Day of the Lord". Those other events were and are yet future.

He saw them all as primarily being fulfilled in Christ's appearance and work back in those days.

Not according to Scripture --- especially the Scripture that he wrote.

[topcat54]

Those other events were and are yet future.

Insisting does not good exegesis make.

[topcat54]

That was a courtesy ping from #123 where your friend hosepipe called you into the discussion.

And I do not recall in recent memory seeing you post on any subject other than pro-preterism and/or anti-dispensationalism.

And your point would be? Dispensationalism is a popular topic and fraught with error. It is a natural subject for discussion in this type of forum. E.g., it was John MacArthur who made the highly questionable claim that all Calvinists ought to be dispensational premil like him. Perhaps we need a poll among the Calvinists here on FR to see it that it true.

[Uncle Chip]

Insisting does not good exegesis make.

Good Advice ---- Take it!!

[topcat54]

Good Advice ---- Take it!!

I'm not the one denying the apostle's plain teaching on the meaning of the Joel prophecy. Your presuppositions about eschatology are the only thing that requires you to give such a response.

There are enough other examples in the NT of very selective quotes from the OT to lead us to believe that Peter fully intended to include the entire thought from Joel as being entirely fulfilled in that generation and among those people. Peter explains what the term “last days” was intended to mean, not some far future time, but the transition from the old covenant to the new. The apostle John confirms this view when he wrote:

“18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.” (1 John 2)

We also have the testimony of Hebrews, were we are told of Jesus’ coming into the world:

“26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.” (Heb. 9)

Men today choose to ignore the biblical meaning of these phrases, believing instead that “last days” and “end of the age” applies to modern times in order to prop up their questionable eschatology.

[Alamo-Girl]

And your point would be?

Generally speaking, people show more interest in ponies that can do more than one trick.

Around here, if a person sees a handle and already knows what the poster is going to say - he is likely to save time and just ignore it unless of course, he has time on his hands and enjoys replaying the same theological ball game.

Any hoot, that's my two cents...

[hosepipe]

[.. Generally speaking, people show more interest in ponies that can do more than one trick. ..]

LoL.....

[Uncle Chip]

“26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.” (Heb. 9)

Men today choose to ignore the biblical meaning of these phrases, believing instead that “last days” and “end of the age” applies to modern times in order to prop up their questionable eschatology.

Maybe those men just choose to read the whole bible and all of Hebrews 9:

"27And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment. 28So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation."

the first time in v26 ---- the second time in v28

[topcat54]

the first time in v26 ---- the second time in v28

No one is denying a second coming, but it is verse 26 (not 28) that refers to "the end of the ages" and plainly places it in the context of His first coming (“He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself”).

You need to evaluate how these phrases are used in context, not according to some pre-defined schema.

[Uncle Chip]

No one is denying a second coming, but it is verse 26 (not 28) that refers to "the end of the ages" and plainly places it in the context of His first coming (“He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself”).

Not so. Are you trying to say that the "ages" ended there in the 1st century??? I don't think so. Verse 26 should probably read: "the end of the age" not "ages", since there were ages to come.[Eph 2:7, Mt12:32]

[topcat54]

Not so.

The greek is sunteleia twn aiwnwn , end of the aeons (ages, plural).

As I said before, insisting does not good exegesis make. And there's one about "denial".

[Uncle Chip]

You didn’t answer the question: Did the ages end in the first century? Yes or No -——

[topcat54]

You didn’t answer the question: Did the ages end in the first century? Yes or No

According to the testimony of Scripture (some of which I quoted to you), the answer is "Yes, the ages in view did end at the coming of Jesus Christ into the world to redeem His people from their sin."

Here’s another verse for your consideration:

"Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come. " (1 Cor. 10:11)

"11 And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, 13 from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool." (Heb. 10)

When Christ sat down on His throne it marked then end of the old system (what the Jews referred to as "this age") and ushered in "the age to come" (marked by eternal life, Mark 10:30).

Now to my question, without twisting the plain meaning, does Heb. 9:26 testify that Christ appeared at the end of the ages to put away sin?