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For a continuing discussion of this topic.

Adhering to these would help greatly in producing a holy Novus Ordo for all.

We've all seen the pictures (dancing, etc.) Please, Not here, again.

1 posted on 08/01/2007 11:19:09 AM PDT by Salvation
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2 posted on 08/01/2007 11:20:35 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation

A very good article. I emailed it to my sister.


3 posted on 08/01/2007 11:29:18 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Salvation

I wish laypeople would just quit trying to be priests/priestesses by using the “orans” position with their hands when the priest says, “The Lord be with you”, and they reply “And also with you”.


4 posted on 08/01/2007 11:30:16 AM PDT by Carpe Cerevisi
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To: Salvation

Thanks Sal.

Don’t forget the Clown Mass. (crosses self, prays for mercy)


5 posted on 08/01/2007 11:31:26 AM PDT by AliVeritas
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To: Salvation

2. Interrupting the Mass.

When I attend the Tridentine Mass, officiated by the Society of St. Peter, they always have announcements prior to the homily. Is this practice wrong?

During the Novus Ordo, at our local cathedral, announcements precede the Dismissal and recessional. Again, is this practice wrong?


6 posted on 08/01/2007 11:33:50 AM PDT by stop_fascism
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To: Salvation

When I read through the list, I wondered if there are any parishes where at least one of those abuses isn’t happening, either by ignorance or design. Even at my parish, which is great in nine out of the ten, every Mass has “eucharistic ministers” (we have six priests if you count three “in residence”). When the previous pastor was around, there were always two priests at every Mass for the Eucharist. Even at the 7:30 a.m. Mass I usually attend on Sundays. Since he retired in June 2006, his replacement has whittled things down. We have one priest for the 7:30 a.m Sunday Mass, the rest are “eucharistic ministers”. At least the priest still distributes the Eucharist at my parish; when I was out of town in May 2006, I saw a priest sit down after the consecration while a female E.M. opened the Tabernacle, took everything out, and then the rest of the E.M.s (all women) walked over to the various places to distribute the wafers. Needless to say, I chose not to participate in that particular “eucharist” and let everyone else on my row. They looked so “surprised” that I didn’t walk my rusty dusty down the aisle with them!


7 posted on 08/01/2007 11:35:05 AM PDT by Convert from ECUSA (Hunter and Tancredo in '08!)
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To: Salvation; verga

Thanks for posting.

We have one visiting priest who refuses to call God “Father” and during consecration he gives the bread and wine to his “friends”
And on and on. His changes make me want to leave and go to a different Mass.

The only benefit is that I can discuss these abuses with my children on the drive home!


8 posted on 08/01/2007 11:35:20 AM PDT by FatherofFive (Choose life!)
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To: Salvation

About the holding hands during the Pater Noster, someone explained this so well, it was someone in the Vatican, can’t remember who (has an Arinze-like tone, but not sure, maybe it was even Cardinal Ratzinger?) — it’s inappropriate because the hand-holding is NOT a sign of unity (as some argue for being the reason to hold hands) but rather it is a sign of intimacy. It’s physical and personal, and not conducive to the meaning of saying the prayer together to God.


9 posted on 08/01/2007 11:39:26 AM PDT by baa39
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To: Salvation
What about "jokes", or does that come under #2?

Humor can be used to make a powerful point when used in the right way in a homily but habitual insertion of frivolous material for the purpose of "holding" the "audience" is detrimental to inner recollection and prayer, in my opinion.

The "announcements" spot seems to be the favorite time for banter and jokes. I know several priests who use an embarrassingly short thanksgiving after Communion and then launch straight into the announcements, complete with wisecracks and gags when people have barely had time for thanksgiving and are still deep in prayer. It contributes to the "circus" atmosphere of Holy Communion, along with the gaggle of EEMs and the pew-clambering "sign of peace".

It sucks.

11 posted on 08/01/2007 11:54:33 AM PDT by marshmallow
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To: Salvation

This is not correct....
“This is oddly widespread in the United States but it’s an illicit addition to the liturgy. The official publication of the Sacred Congregation for the Sacrament sand Divine Worship, Notitiae (11 [1975] 226), states the practice “must be repudiated . . . it is a liturgical gesture introduced spontaneously but on a personal initiative; it is not in the rubrics.” And anything not in the rubrics is unlawful, again because “no other person . . . may add . . . anything [to] the liturgy on his own authority” (ibid).”

If one goes back and reads the actual document, it is about replacing the Handshake of Peace with handholding, not handholding alone.

That being said, I used to be the Handholding expert before I was tossed from Catholic Answers Forums. Most people who like this “Prayer Posture” will say, “Are you going to tell me that I can’t hold my husband’s hand???” No, but it is a posture that should not be encouraged as it makes worship horizontal.
So why not hold hands at the Gospel? How about at the consecration? Why the “Our Father”? Because we say “Our”?

I like the way the Diocese of St. Louis explains it...

“Is holding hands during the Lord’s Prayer allowed or encouraged?

BCL Newsletter, October-November 1989

No. The community’s corporate act of receiving communion is the primary symbol of unity with Christ and the Church. The Sign of Peace immediately preceding the reception of Communion is a liturgical rite that should not be minimized or duplicated in any way. A separate but related issue is the situation of individuals who for personal reasons feel uncomfortable with the practice of holding hands. In this case those individuals feel increasingly excluded from the worshipping community. Sensitivity is needed to include all and draw all to the true symbol of unity.”

From their website...
http://www.archstl.org/worship/girm.html

If you are at a LifeTeen or Charismatic Mass, expect it.
At every mass in the parish? Discourage it.


12 posted on 08/01/2007 12:13:54 PM PDT by netmilsmom (To attack one section of Christianity in this day and age, is to waste time.)
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To: Salvation
or using the New Revised Standard Version of the Bible (or other inaccurate and unapproved ones) for the readings.

See Father Neuhaus on the (episcopally approved) NAB 70 or 70 x 7?:

The NAB is a banal, linguistically inept, and misleading translation. Why did the bishops force it upon the Catholic people, demanding that it and it alone be used in the readings of the Mass? Various answers are given: Because it was produced by the guild of Catholic biblical scholars and, while it may not be very good, at least it is ours. Because the bishops hold the copyright, and charges for using the NAB in Mass guides and elsewhere is a cash cow for the financially strapped bishops conference. Because the bishops really don’t care whether Catholics use a worthy and reliable translation of the Bible.

Whatever the reason, it is a continuing scandal that the bishops do not permit the use of other translations that are more reliable, readable, intelligible, and worthy of the written word of God. The best of them is the Revised Standard Version (RSV), but there are others. (For personal and group Bible study, the Catholic edition of the RSV, published by Ignatius Press, is recommended.)

It is worth noting that the NAB, unlike a number of other translations, is used only by Catholics in the United States and used only by them because they are required to use it in the liturgy. In their own writings, Catholic biblical scholars and other writers generally avoid the NAB. Not surprisingly, the NAB is defended by those who are responsible for producing it, and people who choose to do so are free to use it. It is quite another thing for the bishops to impose the exclusive use of a grievously flawed Bible translation upon the Catholic faithful at Mass.


14 posted on 08/01/2007 12:38:13 PM PDT by maryz
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To: Salvation
Since the date of this article is unknown (clearly before the death of JPII), there's no way to know if it also precedes "Redemptionis Sacramentum", which does a lot to tighten up liturgical abuses connected with the Blessed Sacrament (a term oddly absent from the article; surely "Eucharist" is not an adequate synonym). Nevertheless, it should be pointed out -- again -- that there is no such thing as a "Extraordinary Eucharistic Minister". Only the priest is a minister of the Holy Eucharist, and he is "ordinary", as that's his function.
15 posted on 08/01/2007 12:39:19 PM PDT by Romulus (Quomodo sedet sola civitas plena populo.)
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To: Salvation

These should not be overlooked either.

- Singing the songs, whole-heartedly, prayerfully and open to grace and healing. Expressing great joy AND observing holy silence.

- Building friendships/fellowship with each other after the Mass and during the week so we’re not just strangers showing up but a growing community.

- Showing hospitality and patience to newer Catholics/converts or those who are interested. Bearing witness of our faith during the week to others.

* * *
The practical details are very important, and many parishes are also blessed with priests who maintain the proper traditions. At the same time, forget not love.


23 posted on 08/01/2007 12:51:50 PM PDT by rjp2005 (Lord have mercy on us)
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To: Salvation

It is improtant to follow the rules in order to maintain catholicity (universality), but don’t make following the rules the goal. Many have accused Catholic and other liturgical churches of being too “ritualistic” and lacking of real faith.

In ECUSA, there are many, many hard core liberals who are very good at following all of the rubrics to “do the service correctly”. Similarly, many breakaway ECUSA churches foundered because they made strict adherence to the 1928 BCP and the 1942 Hymnal the primary goal of their church.


27 posted on 08/01/2007 1:32:36 PM PDT by bobjam
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To: Salvation; annalex

7 out of 10 of these happen every week at our Parish.


48 posted on 08/01/2007 3:14:03 PM PDT by Alexius (An absolutely new idea is one of the rarest things known to man. - St. Thomas More)
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To: Salvation

None of these occur at my Parish. The Parishioners DO GLARE at those poor unfortunate visitors who either perform the “Orans” posture or try to grab hands during the Pater Noster. It may be un-Christian, but these folks are “orthodox;” I doubt if that will change unless the Pastor is removed. At age 80, that could happen but he can outrun even the altar boys.


53 posted on 08/01/2007 4:04:39 PM PDT by Frank Sheed (Fr. V. R. Capodanno, Lt, USN, Catholic Chaplain. 3rd/5th, 1st Marine Div., FMF. MOH, posthumously.)
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To: Salvation; trisham; AnAmericanMother; sandyeggo; Tax-chick

Liturgical Abuse #11:

Kneeling on and tearing the priests alb.

Altar boys Frank and T. were serving the 10:15 Sunday TLM when Father genuflected at the beginning of Mass and rose to make the Sign of the Cross. Sadly, Frank was 2.569976 milliseconds late and Father’s alb was beneath Frank’s knee. The entire right portion of the alb tore as the priest rose all the way up to his waist. Without making any kerfuffle, Father said:

“In Nomine Patris, et Filii et Spiritus Sancti. Amen. Introibo ad altare Dei.”

Frank, face flushed totally red, was hoping the earth would open up and swallow him. T., although snickering wildly, answered:

“Ad Deum qui laetificat juventutem meam.”

Father said “pianissimo,” “under control, please...” It was at that moment that Frank noticed that Father was fishing up his sleeve and produced two safety pins which he succeeded in using to pin the alb. Mass proceeded as usual to the end.

Father recently died. This event is a liturgical abuse, but Frank is sure that Father is a saint. There is much to commend him, but this is not the venue for this to be recalled. May Father attain the honors of the altar!

Frank retired from serving Mass shortly thereafter—he was 17. He had seen it all including the time the new kid waved the censor too close to his cassock at Benediction and had it catch on fire only to have Father Y. (a different priest but younger) tackle him and roll him on the ground to put out the fire. To this day, Frank wonders if “altar servers” know how hot a censor can get while being waved back and forth?

True stories...


68 posted on 08/01/2007 6:06:25 PM PDT by Frank Sheed (Fr. V. R. Capodanno, Lt, USN, Catholic Chaplain. 3rd/5th, 1st Marine Div., FMF. MOH, posthumously.)
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To: Salvation

Bump.


87 posted on 08/01/2007 8:16:43 PM PDT by Maeve (Read Bush Executive Order PD 51...)
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To: Salvation

In my church they now include morning and evening prayers as part of the daily mass.Does anyone know if that is permissable?


101 posted on 08/02/2007 4:17:15 AM PDT by ardara
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To: Salvation

This sure makes no sense to a non RC.


109 posted on 08/02/2007 5:04:19 AM PDT by DungeonMaster (Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's.)
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