Posted on 07/27/2007 11:23:09 AM PDT by NYer
“Is the candidate worthy?” intoned Bishop Patricia Fresen ceremonially, as lifelong Catholic Juanita Cordero stood before her in a pure white gown, about to be ordained as a priest. The question was asked three times during the ordination ceremony on Sunday, July 22, as one female priest and two female deacons were invested with the power to perform sacraments — a function forbidden to women under canon law. They are part of a movement from within the Roman Catholic Church that has been ordaining female priests since 2002, though those involved say that the tradition of women priests and bishops dates as far back as Mary Magdalene, whom they consider an apostle of Jesus. The participants in this movement fervently hope to be embraced by the Vatican, as other splinter groups have been before them.
Sunday’s ordination, witnessed by more than 100 invited guests, took place at an interfaith center in Santa Barbara that reporters agreed not to name in exchange for an invitation to attend. (Reporters also agreed not to print the names or orders of the nuns in attendance.) The women ordained Sunday join 18 others in North America who belong to an international organization called Roman Catholic Women Priests, which counts among its number approximately 50 female priests and deacons worldwide, including a few whose identities remain undisclosed in an effort to protect their jobs within the church. Also secret are the identities of the male bishops who ordained Bishop Fresen. Film and documentary evidence of that ceremony is being kept by a notary public, not to be released until the deaths of the male bishops.
At least two Santa Barbara women are studying to be ordained, perhaps as early as next year. Besides their gender deviating from the Catholic priest norm, neither the priest nor the two deacons ordained on Sunday — who are scheduled for re-ordination as priests on July 28 — is celibate. Norma Coon, of San Diego, has been married for 40 years. Toni Tortorilla, of Portland, lives with her lesbian partner. Cordero, a newly anointed priest who lives in San Luis Obispo, is a former nun who has been married for 30 years to a former Jesuit priest.
The ceremony, which took place on the feast day of Mary Magdalene, also differed from the standard Catholic ordination in the names the presiding clergy used for God, who is ordinarily referred to as “the Father.” The female priests instead referred to “Mother and Father” and to “God/de.” (The latter is pronounced like “God,” with the silent, extra letters hinting at a goddess that those in the ceremony declined to refer to explicitly.) Jesus Christ retained his masculine identity, however.
The reason that the women are determined to remain Roman Catholics, instead of forming their own church or joining another — such as the Episcopal Church, which ordains female clergy — is that they consider the Roman Catholic Church to be their family, albeit a dysfunctional one, and they have no intention of abandoning it. “It’s in my bones,” said Fresen. “It’s in my blood. There are a lot of things wrong within the church, but I love it, and the only way to change it is to stay.” They added that excommunication, contrary to popular belief, does not remove one from the church; it only means that one cannot receive the sacraments. “Nothing can put you out of the church once you have been baptized,” said Fresen. However, after the first seven women priests ordained on the Danube in 2002 were promptly excommunicated, none of the other ordained females has been excommunicated.
“The meaningfulness of the Catholic tradition to me is the long history of mysticism in the church,” said priest Victoria Rue, who also teaches theology and theater at San Jose State University. She finds particular inspiration in the women mystics of the Middle Ages. “Priesthood,” added Rue, “is about leadership within the community.” There are many types of ministries to which people are called, she said, concluding, “I feel called to the ministry of the liturgy,” which she described as communal worship.
lol!
Assuming that the incident described above happened as stated, and that the male bishops involved were Roman Catholics, one is moved to wonder what consequences follow from the automatic excommunications prescribed by Canon 1382 ("Both the Bishop who, without a pontifical mandate, consecrates a person a Bishop, and the one who receives the consecration from him, incur a latae sententiae excommunication reserved to the Apostolic See"). It's not unthinkable that a couple retired bishops could be sufficiently loose in the hinges to attempt this prank. Since it's all secret, however, we won't know who they are or the date on which they excommunicated themselves for some time. Presumably the sacraments they perform are valid even after their excommunication, but it's odd to think that one's confirmation or consecration might be effected by a man revealed after the fact to have been a non-Catholic. The theological force of episcopal collegiality, moreover, is stretched to the breaking point by the image of patchwork communion. If Bishop X is buried in the cathedral crypt, will they disinter him after the video surfaces and re-bury him in partibus infidelium?Maybe it'll turn out to be a hoax, and the "male bishops" merely part-time kleagles hired from one of those goofy autocephalous outfits. But the general drowsiness with which many Catholic ecclesiastics treat of the sacraments suggests they view their ordination in the same terms as Patricia Fresen and company: a ritual of empowerment conferring the confidence to preach, counsel, and lead the singing of hymns. Do you get the sense the college of bishops is as keen to spy out the offenders in their midst as a college of surgeons would be to rid themselves of impostors in theirs?
I can call my dog a cat but that doesn’t mean it can climb trees.
These people are pretending to be Catholic while they clearly are NOT!
Yes, that makes sense. As an outsider, I have been very blessed over the last year and a half to have learned much about the Roman Catholic faith from good Catholic Freepers. I know the cranks in the article are not practicing Catholicism. The other arena I think I've heard the term "excommunicated latae sententiae" was regarding publicly pro-abortion politicians taking the Eucharist. Is that correct? It may not be since it is my understanding that a priest or Bishop has some discretion on whether to administer the sacrament in those cases, so I wouldn't think that he (priest) would excommunicate himself for "participating".
Attempting to ordain is more accurate.
That's what I figured. I noticed that the ceremony did not take place in a Catholic Church, and presumably never will.
From all orthodox scholarship, there is no evidence that Mary Magdalene was considered an apostle on par with the Twelve and their successors.
I agree. With something that big, if that was God's intent He would have told us so.
“Someone needs to start calling them Excommunicated and I believe that someone is called the Pope!”
Aren’t these people automatically excommunicated anyways? Well, it would be nice if their local ordinary excommunicated them, but the Pope would do nicely.
Now, if they were in Omaha—Bruskewitz territory—he would have excommunicated them faster than lightning.
Does anyone know how often the Pope hears about these things? He’s obviously not on FreeRepublic or searching the blogosphere...
"Latae sententiae" is basically automatic excommunication, without an actual decree. It's been most commonly discussed in recent years in connection with abortion. There are several bishops who have made it plain that they will not give Communion to politicians who support abortion. Other bishops are, shall we say, more lax. I think the Pope has said that pro-abortion politicians should not receive.
It's unclear exactly where the "ceremony" took place -- a poster above thinks those square things look like Stations of the Cross, which would mean it is a Catholic church of sorts (yes, sadly, some of them do look like that nowadays!). I think the article says it's some sort of "interfaith community" (whatever that means) near Santa Barbara. The name is withheld to protect the guilty -- who don't want to lose their jobs -- with the Church!
Yes ... I saw that AFTER I posted this thread. He does an excellent job of disecting the news report; calls them Unitarians.. lol! Once again, the media show their ignorance and use these opportunities to drive confusion amongst the faithful. (shaking head)
Halloween came early for some kids this year.
And that is because the Magisterium has already ruled that since Christ did not choose women to serve in His apostolage, neither can the Church. The Holy Father has ruled infallibly on this matter and still these feminists persist in playing this game. These women have excommunicated themselves from the Catholic Church to which they profess such great devotion.
And here she is ... in all her glory!
Fr. Mary Ramerman
Excommunicated from the Catholic Church.
In other news,
Cool!!! How did you do that?
!
Thanks, Maryz, for your comments and good links (which answered many of my follow-up questions as well :). It looks like these politicians would be excommunicated automatically on two counts. It would seem to me that these politicians, along with all of the Catholics who actually think abortion is OK (and still regularly attend Mass, etc.) would either not accept or be in denial of their own excommunication.
Based on what I know of Catholic theology, that would appear to leave a large number (not percentage) of souls in great eternal peril. These folks would be living in a constant state of mortal sin, so every Eucharist taken would be improper, and every confession/absolution would be void (assuming no confession on the issue). I know there are "outs" that allow some outside of the Church to be saved nonetheless, however, my "guess" would be that the standards God would apply to those who have accepted the Roman Catholic faith would be higher. I'm thinking of a sort of reverse "invincible ignorance" argument. I don't know if it applies though.
It's unclear exactly where the "ceremony" took place -- a poster above thinks those square things look like Stations of the Cross, which would mean it is a Catholic church of sorts (yes, sadly, some of them do look like that nowadays!).
Yes, I was wondering what the legal ramifications were on holding out a building as a "Catholic Church". I imagine that if I opened a building with the signage "FK's Catholic Church of Reformed Theology", that I would get quite a few phone calls and letters. :) I'm not sure what international intellectual property rights the Vatican actually owns, if any. If a new and legitimate Roman Catholic Church opened today, who would have to sanction it for it to be "official"?
Glad to see you’re on the same page... I saw you just echoed that one paragraph from the article when you pinged me, so I wasn’t sure where you were going, and I figured that a commentary on it wouldn’t hurt and might actually help some other FReepers and lurkers.
It seems maryz has you squared away on your other questions; I think you have a good handle on the whole subject... probably better than a lot of Catholics.
God Bless!
I used to go to Rochester alot attending meets and wound up working with a woman who was a member of that church.
I knew the conversation was going nowhere when she said “isn’t it a shame the Bishop won’t allow the Spirit to move?”
I remember thinking “if you can manage to get excommunicated by Clark - then you’ve done REAL BAD!
How whacky is it that these chicks want to be considered Roman Catholic.
They’re smart enough to know they aren’t. They don’t even LIKE the pope - they don’t LIKE Rome.
Why don’t they they just call themselves the Church of Female Superiority and be done with it?
“What other “splinter groups”? Anyone have any idea what they’re talking about?”
Oh...the must be talking about that French dude that ordained bishops against the Pope’s wishes.
The Pope took that REAL well - really embraced them for sure!
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.