Posted on 07/26/2007 5:02:49 AM PDT by kawaii
26 July 2007, 10:00
Russian Church disputes Patriarch of Constantinople's leadership claims on Orthodox Church
Moscow, July 26, Interfax - Statements by the Greek Foreign Ministry that the Patriarchate of Constantinople has been the head of all Orthodox believers since the 6th century and remains the spiritual leader of 300 million Orthodox Christians have no historical foundation, the Russian Orthodox Church announced.
A recent joint statement by Greek Foreign Minister Dora Bakoyannis and the leader of the European People's Party (EPP) Wilfried Martens voices support for Patriarch Bartolomew I of Constantinople and says that he has been the head of the Orthodox Church throughout the world since the 6th century and is the spiritual leader of 300 million Orthodox believers worldwide.
Bakoyannis and Martens demand that Turkey recognize the international status and the succession right within Church of the Patriarchate of Constantinople based in Istanbul, as well as recognize its right as a legal entity and return the church's property.
"The Russian Orthodox Church deeply regrets in connection with any unfounded restriction of freedom of belief of the Orthodox faith, wherever it happens, and never has doubted either the historical title of 'archbishop of Constantinople - New Rome and Ecumenical Patriarchate' or the title of the '13th Apostle, Judge of the Universe' which traditionally belongs to the Patriarch of Alexandria," the Moscow Patriarchate told Interfax.
When these titles appeared, the universe meant the Byzantine Empire and the concept of "world jurisdiction of the Patriarchate of Constantinople" or the affiliation to it of "300 million Orthodox Christians" was not true, because the "Patriarchate of Constantinople is one of 15 autonomous (autocephalous) local Orthodox Churches and far from the most numerous one," the Moscow Patriarchate said.
In the diptych (list containing the names of primates of Orthodox Churches), "The Patriarch of Constantinople traditionally holds the first, honorable place, but it gives no authority beyond the Constantinople Church," and in addition, it was reserved for Constantinople not since the 6th, but since the 9th century, because "before the final division between the Churches of Constantinople and Rome in 1054, the first place in the diptych, under the sacred canons, indisputably belonged to the Bishop of Rome," the Moscow Patriarchate said.
‘spiritual LEADER’?
In the diptych (list containing the names of primates of Orthodox Churches), "The Patriarch of Constantinople traditionally holds the first, honorable place, but it gives no authority beyond the Constantinople Church," and in addition, it was reserved for Constantinople not since the 6th, but since the 9th century, because "before the final division between the Churches of Constantinople and Rome in 1054, the first place in the diptych, under the sacred canons, indisputably belonged to the Bishop of Rome," the Moscow Patriarchate said.
This is true...
What? Orthodox Churches not agreeing on things? Why, that’s...that’s...
an all too often occurance.
My old priest was at a pan-Orthodoxy clergy event when a speaker refered to the Patriarch of Constantinople as the “supreme head of the Orthodox Church.” It was all he could do to keep himself from standing up and yelling “Heresy!” He said it was very obvious that the assembled clergy reacted very negatively to this statement.
I can’t help but note that we never actually hear this sort of thing from the Patriarch himself, only from others.
That can happen when you operate outside of a dictatorship and in a collegial manner as did the Apostles.
This is pretty meaningless stuff, however. A tempest in a teapot.
You wrote:
“That can happen when you operate outside of a dictatorship and in a collegial manner as did the Apostles.”
So your choice is dictatorship or childishness as an Orthodox Christian? Sheesh!
“This is pretty meaningless stuff, however.”
If it’s meaningless then why the strife?
“A tempest in a teapot.”
Teapot. A sad but fitting metaphor for the ever shrinking Turkish phanar of the EP.
No, our choice is to maintain the collegial manner of the Apostles and that means we are Orthodox Christians.
If we wanted a dictatorship, we'd be Uniates.
You wrote:
“No, our choice is to maintain the collegial manner of the Apostles and that means we are Orthodox Christians.”
So it is “collegiality” that makes you Orthodox? Strange, I thought it was orthodoxy in doctrine and not a form of governance, but no matter.
“If we wanted a dictatorship, we’d be Uniates.”
People leave dictatorships in droves when free to do so. That isn’t happening with the Uniates and they’re very free to do so. Clearly there is no dictatorship. Also, you don’t see any of the three (or is it four these days?) of the Ukrainian ‘patriarchs’ calling the Ukrainian Catholic church a dictatorship now do you?
The collegial governance flows from right doctrine. Change the governance and you've altered the doctrine.
People leave dictatorships in droves when free to do so.
Some do, we call them "Protestants."
A small quibble, but the break in 1054 would make it since the 11th century, not the 9th. I will not comment on the dispute between the patriarchates.
You wrote:
“Some do, we call them “Protestants.””
LOL! Touche!
The best part, however, will be when the Eastern Orthodox come home anyway. We’ll keep the light on for you. We know you don’t have much directional sense.
it’s almost like all those bishops who disagree with the vatican under catholicism, still you don’t have the confusing array of multiple overlapping jurisdictions with bishops overseeing parish on the canonical territory of other bishops... er actually the Catholics have that too forgot about their eastern rite parishes.
Nero fiddled while Rome burned.
The leaders of the European churches squabble over ancient titles, local urinating grounds and past insults while the forces of the culture of death, islamofacism, neopagansim, rampant drug use and sex slavery slowly engulf the continent.
If the European church leaders do not get their act together, the Lord will replace them. Just look at the Anglican Communion.
Be not afraid.
When the time comes - when it really comes - they’ll get their act together. God always pushed them at the right time.
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