I tend to trust that what the Gospels say about man's approach to God. If there's a practice that's not there, I tend to distrust the need and sanctity of that practice.
You seem to fell differently.
Posted on 07/23/2007 3:36:15 PM PDT by annalex
I tend to trust that what the Gospels say about man's approach to God. If there's a practice that's not there, I tend to distrust the need and sanctity of that practice.
You seem to fell differently.
I tend to trust that what the Gospels say about man’s approach to God. If there’s a practice that’s not there, I tend to distrust the need and sanctity of that practice
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++So You accept the Luke Gospels and the Hail Mary Prayer, derived from it..Good!
You Also accept The Eucharist that is Portrayed by the writings of the Last Supper and reiterated in the writings of the Cruxifixions. The Body and Blood in a Mass are Actually Christ!
You then Accept the Mass because the Liturgy is derived from the Bible..and the Rites are spoken by GOD to His People complete with Incense Altar Offering Table where the Lamb is Replaced by his son and Offered in the Catholic Mass everyday around the world!
Oh Yeah and that Bible you quote was Maintained by Catholics for generations.. and No where does it Say Solo Fe nor Sola Scriptura...but that is your basis for belief! go Figure... Jesus Christ forms a 2000 + year old church and Man thinks he knows better on how to obtain Salvation...Go Figure!
I read that you wrote:
“And I guess I will work on this, but I am not worried about Hell. Maybe somehow I do experience something like “blessed assurance”.
I’m struggling with this, maybe as only a convert who was a clergy-dude in the Calvinist side of Episcopalianism could. I think my thought is that I don’t think about it that much. I am thinking about me and Jesus and where we are with each other right now, not where we’ll be in the future.
So I’m not wringing my hands saying, “Can I lose this?” “
And I wonder:
What do you make of this reference to Hell from one of the Acts of Contrition:
“O My God, I am heartily sorry for having offended Thee, and I detest all my sins because I dread the loss of Heaven and the pains of Hell; but most of all because they offend Thee, my God, Who art all-good and deserving of all my love. I firmly resolve, with the help of Thy grace, to confess my sins, to do penance, and to amend my life. Amen.”
What is Hell if not separation from God?
Thanking you,
“Why would the church do that? I have one theory. To reach the women. To create a female principle to balance the male principle, because Jesus was male, and a female symbol focuses attracts and binds women, especially those not already attached to a man.
It is a marketing technique, but technique it is. And Catholic leadership is composed of brilliant men. I’ve read some apologies translated from the Latin on social issues. Tight and right.”
Did any Church leader knowingly worship Mary, or was the teaching of the Church concerning Mary always just a trick to attract women to the early Church (even though they wouldn’t realize that they were actually worshippin’ Mary)? Do Catholics choose to worship Mary?
Freegards
Exactly, the parent would love no matter what.
We are all called to be childlike. To do our best. Your interpretation of scripture is led by the Holy Spirit and so is mine. I should not listen to you over the Holy Spirit should I?
Having slipped away from the Catholic Church for a time, I did my fair share of Bible study. Yet, even after my time in BSF, came to the same conclusions. Led by the Holy Spirit.
So while you tell us how you interpret scripture and many a poster tells you how he/she sees it, both The Catholic Church and I believe that one can go to heaven on trying to live in a Christlike manner, even if everything is not done right. A humble and contrite heart goes a long way.
Pharisee does come to mind when a person tells another, that what he is doing is wrong to the point of being damned for it.
I don’t presume to know WHO will be saved. You can, but I prefer to stay childlike.
And that’s the last I have to say on the matter. I’m off to do roofing for the next couple days and will not be back.
God Bless.
It's a stretch only for those invested in the con.
I believe Jesus gave it as a symbolic gesture for the disciples to remember Him.
The Body and Blood in a Mass are Actually Christ!
If there were to be so, Jesus would have actually sliced off a hunk of flesh and drained some of His blood for the disciples. He was there; they were there. The act is symbolic. Do a biological range of tests on your Eucharist.
While Catholics may have a tradition or two that isn't in the written scriptures, they sure as hell better not contradict the scriptures, many of which do.
Methinks, by your writing, you are much too invested in the con to hear anything to the contrary.
Sorry.
I should not listen to you over the Holy Spirit should I?
You should listen to the scriptures over what the Catholic church leadership tells you.
One comes to the same conclusions one has been conditioned into over one's life.
Pharisee does come to mind when a person tells another, that what he is doing is wrong to the point of being damned for it.
That is what the Catholic church tells me. Note on point: Jesus severely criticized the Pharisees for their putting their manmade traditions over holy scripture.
I don't presume to know who will be saved either. But I know that Jesus plotted the path to salvation and little of the traditions of the Catholic church in consistent with it.
That was, is and remains my point.
Well after my time in non-Catholic Bible Study, the Holy Spirit has lead me.
Right back to the Catholic church.
>>That is what the Catholic church tells me<<
And so it comes to show that you have NO clue about the Catholic church.
“You don’t just become a Catholic, I’ve heard, you must first go thorough orientation...”
Find out for yourself. It’s called RICA and comprised of bible studies, catachism and church teachings based on the bible study. You would have a sponsor to help you and guide your faith journey.
Orientation it is not. It is the formation of a Christian conscience, a deeper understanding the faith, and a Christian walk with other catechumens. This process is grounded in the Acts btw.
Yes, surprisingly we Catholics know the Acts of the Apostles!
Good question. Very good. Here's my stab thereat: Yeah, when I make an act of contrition, I guess I'm thinking that Hell is dreadful and if I keep this stuff up and don't have frequent and purposeful (and pious and the rest) recourse to the assured means of Grace, I could end up there.
Maybe I'm just in a nice period, and I don't know the meaning of aridity, or something like that. But while the Lord has done great things for me since before I converted, 14 years ago give or take, the whole experience has been an ever more wonderful, ever more rewarding progress deeper into, well love, newness, and, yeah, sometimes a more perfect contrition - a more perceptive horror of who I am and what I do when I momentarily turn away.
But I don't WORRY about it. Does that make sense?
Physical therapy is such an analogy for me. I hurt my shoulder because I used it wrong and I was weak anyway -- that is, I used my whole body wrong. Then I was diagnosed and brought into the process of healing. My shoulder is better, lots better, and it can get better still. Right now, I cannot imagine using it so badly or using my body so badly that it ever gets as bad as it was (hell-bound, in the analogy) before. I can entertain a hypothesis, I can imagine if, first I quit working out, and then I started doing what I did before, then I could re-tear the sub-acromial ligament.
But on the other side of the analogy, it's hard for me to believe that God would remove all the graces that keep me choosing and yearning to see HIm more clearly, love Him more dearly, follow HIm more nearly day by day.
AND I devoutly pray not to be led into any kind of trial. In any event, my confidence is not at all in me but in His care. He rescued me from deep and frankly, pretty nasty waters. I try to hang around Him as much as He lets me.
In related news, it's not so much the absence of God, it is the unmediated presence and love of God, if one would prefer to have things one's OWN way, that is Hell. Dante says, these gates were built by Love, and of course it's love that gives us the dignity of freedom and choice and all that. But I'm also suggesting that the Love of God to someone who hates Him, who has locked himself into perpetual hate of the good and of the Good, that might be Hell.
Just a thought.
Funny how the article keeps being proved over and over again. Of course, I’m an adult convert, so I didn’t get the full Pavlovian treatment.
I think that maybe that's the one for dyslexics. The one I took was RCIA - the Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults. They weren't talking about emotional maturity so I was able to sneak in.
And evidently I missed the brainwashing part. Or else they are REALLY REALLY sneaky and were able to wash my brain without torture or any of that. The seats WERE kind of hard though.
I know you think Catholics are conditioned to not only worship Mary but to be unaware of this Mary worship. I asked:
“Did any Church leader knowingly worship Mary, or was the teaching of the Church concerning Mary always just a trick to attract women to the early Church (even though they wouldn’t realize that they were actually worshippin’ Mary)? Do Catholics choose to worship Mary?”
To which you replied:
“Like I said, conditioning. You don’t just become a Catholic, I’ve heard, you must first go thorough orientation. Is that true? If so, why?”
I’m not understanding your response. Did the Church leaders who implemented Mary worship in the Catholic Church worship Mary themselves? Or was it just a trick to make the Church more palatable to women, even though they (the women) themselves wouldn’t be aware of this Mary worship? Do Catholics choose to worship Mary?
Freegards
Now you’ve done it. Esuitjay ychosomaticpsay asktay orcefay onay itsay wasay. Arymay orshipway irectveday #22.
Sorry Mad Dawg but I had to turn you in. The good news is you will be unaware of your newly devout polytheistic goddess worship.
Freegards
“I think that maybe that’s the one for dyslexics.”
Of which I am! Which is why my grammar is atrocious!
No problem though. My math is beyond most peoples. What God doesn’t provide in one area, he makes up in another.
“And evidently I missed the brainwashing part...”
Me too! Although learning that what’s in your heart and really really really really seeing yourself for what you are does take a lifetime.
Jesus provided the means of my salvation and He is steadily shaping my soul to what he wants. I figure another few decades and I might be able to sing with the angels.
Lord knows, that my temper still needs binding. It’s useful though. I’m learning how and when to wield it.
“Maybe I’m just in a nice period, and I don’t know the meaning of aridity, or something like that. But while the Lord has done great things for me since before I converted, 14 years ago give or take, the whole experience has been an ever more wonderful, ever more rewarding progress deeper into, well love, newness, and, yeah, sometimes a more perfect contrition - a more perceptive horror of who I am and what I do when I momentarily turn away.
But I don’t WORRY about it. Does that make sense?”
Perfectly.
St. Faustine said it perfectly, “My Jesus, I trust in You.”
It’s all about trusting God even when things are horrid and you rail against fate. Even in those black hours where you beg, “God Help Me! Please” (and Opus knows of black black hours where help was not present) and the torment continues, deep inside you know that you still trust in Jesus who seems to be completely absent.
You just accept. Do the best you can with what you have until at exactly the point that He decides in His timeless, perfect way of creation to create the new and better thing in your life.
Phew....glad that’s over (-;, Until next time!
This ferreting out of everything in your heart and soul takes a lifetime and THAT has to be accepted too for Grace to act.
IMVHO!
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