To: P-Marlowe; xzins; Dr. Eckleburg; blue-duncan
The Bible is quite clear about the target of the atonement: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. (1 John 2:2 KJV) I would suggest that this verse needs to be examined in relationship with Isaiah 63 which states:
Isa 63:7 I will mention the lovingkindnesses of the LORD, [and] the praises of the LORD, according to all that the LORD hath bestowed on us, and the great goodness toward the house of Israel, which he hath bestowed on them according to his mercies, and according to the multitude of his lovingkindnesses.
Isa 63:8 For he said, Surely they [are] my people, children [that] will not lie: so he was their Saviour.
Isa 63:9 In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old.
Isa 63:10 But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, [and] he fought against them.
Isa 63:11 Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, [and] his people, [saying], Where [is] he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where [is] he that put his holy Spirit within him?
Isa 63:12 That led [them] by the right hand of Moses with his glorious arm, dividing the water before them, to make himself an everlasting name?
Isa 63:13 That led them through the deep, as an horse in the wilderness, [that] they should not stumble?
Isa 63:14 As a beast goeth down into the valley, the Spirit of the LORD caused him to rest: so didst thou lead thy people, to make thyself a glorious name.
Isa 63:15 Look down from heaven, and behold from the habitation of thy holiness and of thy glory: where [is] thy zeal and thy strength, the sounding of thy bowels and of thy mercies toward me? are they restrained?
Isa 63:16 Doubtless thou [art] our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, [art] our father, our redeemer; thy name [is] from everlasting.
Isa 63:17 O LORD, why hast thou made us to err from thy ways, [and] hardened our heart from thy fear? Return for thy servants' sake, the tribes of thine inheritance.
God looked at those unbelieving Israelites as their Savior. These are the same people who "vexed His Holy Spirit" and rebelled. Psalms says they were unbelievers. But God still loved them and considered Himself their Savior, and He was right. (What else did you expect me to say?)
From His point of view He is the Savior of the whole world just as He claimed He was the Savior of Israel as He brought them out of Egypt. But those people perished. I believe John (and Peter's "..even denying the Master who bought them...") are talking about how God looks at man, but it isn't all inclusive. Christ blood only atones for those who He returns to His inheritance. Isaiah 63 shows that God considers Himself the Savior of even those who are perishing.
To: HarleyD; P-Marlowe; blue-duncan
Isaiah 63 shows that God considers Himself the Savior of even those who are perishing.
I must admit that I certainly didn't expect to hear YOU say THAT!!
What do you mean by it????
9,440 posted on
10/19/2007 12:40:02 PM PDT by
xzins
(If you will just agree to the murdering of your children, we can win the presidency)
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