Yes, but I don't see the point you are trying to make. I was asking you if you thought that the time of death for most/all people was random.
Does God make retarded people? God doesn't "make" us. Parents make us following God's laws of procreation. Thus whatever corruption the parents have they give it to their offspring.
Ah, so parents make us. I see. So, you don't agree with Ps 139:13? :) If not, then you won't like these either: :
Gen 4:1 : And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord. KJV
Isa 44:24 : Thus saith the Lord, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself; KJV
Jer 27:5 : With my great power and outstretched arm I made the earth and its people and the animals that are on it, and I give it to anyone I please.
Acts 14:15 : "Men, why are you doing this? We too are only men, human like you. We are bringing you good news, telling you to turn from these worthless things to the living God, who made heaven and earth and sea and everything in them.
Acts 17:24-25 : 24 "The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands. 25 And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else.
You get the idea. God is the author and maker of every life.
God created the world good. Whatever imperfection and evil exists in it is because our ancestral parents rejected the Good and became evil.
In general, I have no problem with this statement. However, it should be remembered that the first sin committed "in the world" was not by Adam or Eve, but by the serpent.
FK: "In my church we DO celebrate the lives of the departed. Of course, we also feel sorry for ourselves at our own loss."
Somewhere in the NT it says we should not love the world. Obviously so many seem to disregard it. We love God but we love our world too, sometimes more, don't we? True Christians should be delighted at their loss! We should be celebrating the departure of the loved ones, because if you love your neighbor as yourself you would delight in their heavenly rewards, and the joy of their loss would pale any residual sorrow for their absence.
Here is the passage:
1 John 2:15-17 : 15 Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For everything in the world — the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does — comes not from the Father but from the world. 17 The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever.
I agree with you that many Christians love the world inappropriately. However, while I think your purported Christian dealing with loss is fine for some, I do not think it Biblically wrong or sinful to feel sadness at the separation upon death. We will "miss" the departed. Paul said all the time how he missed being with the churches he had visited. There is nothing wrong with that. Here is the classic example:
John 11:32-36 : 32 When Mary reached the place where Jesus was and saw him, she fell at his feet and said, "Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died." 33 When Jesus saw her weeping, and the Jews who had come along with her also weeping, he was deeply moved in spirit and troubled. 34 "Where have you laid him?" he asked. "Come and see, Lord," they replied. 35 Jesus wept. 36 Then the Jews said, "See how he loved him!"
There it is. Now, whether Christ had control over the destination of this man's soul or not, He clearly sets the example for all of us that it is perfectly right and proper to cry over the loss of a loved one.
FK: "God obviously wants His children here for a time for His reasons."
Pure speculation. God could be completely dispassionate as regards our stay here. In fact, the eastern Church teaches that God is indeed dispassionate when it comes to mankind.
I probably checked 5 online dictionaries, and they all had the same definition for 'dispassionate': "Devoid of or unaffected by passion, emotion, or bias." Love is an emotion. This would seem to paint the eastern Church into quite a corner. :)
Oh yeah? So how much of your free time do you spend evangelizing non-Christians? Or do you try to "fit" it in your busy schedule of other "fun things to do?" What priority in your life does the Great Commission take in your free time? First, second, third, after the football game, after BBQ; do your vacations go all towards the Great Commission...c'mon FK, you know what I mean.
Well, as I can objectively prove, I spend an INORDINATE amount of my free time right here :) witnessing my faith to dozens or hundreds of thousands of readers, some number of whom have not yet accepted Christ. I don't need a medal or anything, but I really do think it IS something that contributes. You can say the same thing.
FK: "Plus, we have to stay alive long enough to make more future Christians."
I thought God made all the elect from before foundation of the world according to your theology. We can't make Christians! And if He wants more, He certainly can make more. We could all be engaged in populating the earth 24/7/365!
Well, given my above, I have to admit that my word choice here was not optimal. :) I was thinking of the joke and not the theology. I maintain that God makes all of us through the mother and father of each child. God DETERMINES the elect, by name, from before the foundations, but He does not physically "make" us until conception, and thereafter.
I thought God created us for His pleasure in your theology. Who cares if we benefit or not? It's not about us, or is it on Tuesdays and Thursdays?
He DID create us for His pleasure, and you're right that it's not about us. However, apparently God DOES care if we benefit or not because we experience that He blesses us all the time. Plus, we have the Bible, which is clear on the matter. For example:
Rom 8:28 : And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.
"Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed. And in Your book they all were written, The days fashioned for me, When as yet there were none of them." -- Psalm 139:16 "Seeing his days are determined, the number of his months are with thee, thou hast appointed his bounds that he cannot pass" -- Job 14:5
And if Job's testimony and the Psalms aren't enough, we have the NT echoing the OT...
"And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation" -- Acts 17:26
God is the author and maker of every life.
Amen.
Fear not: for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west; I will say to the north, Give up; and to the south, Keep not back: bring my sons from far, and my daughters from the ends of the earth; Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him." -- Isaiah 43:4-7"Since thou wast precious in my sight, thou hast been honourable, and I have loved thee: therefore will I give men for thee, and people for thy life.
KOSTA: God could be completely dispassionate as regards our stay here. In fact, the eastern Church teaches that God is indeed dispassionate when it comes to mankind.
Kosta, how is it the EO disregards so much clear Scripture? I just don't recognize this dispassionate, impersonal, stoic, impotent God who sort of creates and then steps aside to watch how it all plays out. That's not the God the Bible reveals.
God is impartial to the works of all men because all men are equally fallen. But God is not impartial to His children whom He has named, numbered and called to Him.
"Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one." -- Job 14:4
Thus, all the righteous works of men mean nothing. It is only the righteousness of Christ that is good in the eyes of God, imputed to those whom God has chosen as His children, according to His own purpose.
That's what we thank God for. That's where our gratitude lies -- not for our own abilities but for God's grace through Christ alone.
For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly." -- Romans 5:5-6"And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
In these two short verses we have a total repudiation of your earlier point -- 1) God's love is given to us by the Holy Ghost
2) We are redeemed not after and because we have become righteous through our works or done anything to merit our salvation, but while we are still "without strength" Christ dies for the "ungodly."
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)" -- Ephesians 2:4-5"But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
I just noticed for the first time that Ephesians 2:4-5 is a total repetition of Romans 5:5-6.
Almost as if God planned it that way.
D-fendr already quoted +John of Damascus, but that would mean nothing to you. However, being a Calvinist, D-fendr's other reference may:
It could be. That changes nothing as far as your ultimate state is concerned, does it? So, to claim that somehow your moment of death is ordained is a conjecture. We could say that God knows when it will be, but that the actual cause may be circumstantial.
Ah, so parents make us
Yes, according to the laws of nature God created. Is God still creating or did He finish the job the first time? Yes, we know mountains erode and glaciers carve the landscape. Is that God doing it or the laws of nature playing themselves out?
You get the idea. God is the author and maker of every life
Yes He created all life initially then stopped creating. From then on, life begets life.
John 11:35 Jesus wept. 36 Then the Jews said, "See how he loved him!"
I hope you understand that this doesn't make any sense (just one of verses!). He knew that He would raise Lazarus, so why would He be weeping over him? Just because everyone else was crying?
However, apparently God DOES care if we benefit or not because we experience that He blesses us all the time
What's so "apparent" about it? It's all about His purpose or His will for that matter and if we happen to be the recipients of His favor than we are just "lucky" I guess, since He already decided who will be happy and who will roast, right? In other words, if it's pleasure, it by luck on our part, and pleasure on His part.
And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. [Rim 8-28]
This suggests that God is not impartial and that He can be swayed by those who love Him because they love Him! It also asserts that only the good have been called to His purpose. Does that mean that Judas, Pharaoh and other popular biblical villains have bypassed His purpose and were acting on their own, and contrary to His will? Otherwise they need "credit" too because without the villains the God of the Reformed created His plan would "stuck."