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To: kosta50; D-fendr
Christianity is based on the trinitarian God. When you come to believe (by change of heart or mind, whichever), you have no idea what you are believing except that you realize there is God. So you just don't become a core Christian form the start. You are indoctrinated in it.

Well, what level of understanding do you require for Christian belief? That Jesus and the Spirit are God is evident enough from the scripture. Superficial reading reveals Christ as God. I was told about the Trinity before I believed, without figuring it out by myself, but so what? The perspicuity of scripture gives any reasonable reader enough to ask for salvation without teachers.

I don't see any trouble because I cannot recall the verse that says that satan is more powerful than God. While satan can outwit me alone, satan cannot snatch me out of God's hands.

Have you ever heard of Adam and Eve?

How do you figure satan snatched them out of God's hands? Think about it, the Fall was not at all permanent as to their eternity. If they were given by the Father, then they are in Heaven today. satan loses. They sinned, and they were punished. Same with us. If God moved them to later repent and accept God in a salvational sense, then they were saved. Same with us.

Presumably, if they had never sinned, then they would still be there today, waiting for an occasional visit by God. Would you rather want that or would you want to be in God's presence all the time in Heaven? It's a no brainer for me. :)

It is no wonder we have such a violent society, FK. It's based on the Protestant notion that no matter what one does, he is safe as long as you call on Jesus (it's that pecca fortiter again...).

LOL! That answer ranks the same to me as "IT'S BUSH'S FAULT!". For all intents and purposes, the ONLY people who believe in your view are Apostolics who accuse it of Protestants. If you really think that true believing Protestants think it's fine for them to commit murder because they are already forgiven for it, AND that the prevalence of this is bringing society as a whole down, then I will just have to leave you to this view. There is nothing I can say. We are laughing, though. :)

2,931 posted on 08/18/2007 8:33:40 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper
82nd Psalm, verse one: ... 'aLHYM NTShB B'yDTh-'aL BQUrB 'aLHYM YShPhT. "God hath stood in the company of God, In the midst God doth judge."

The three personages of the Unity:

Who Raised Jesus From the Dead?

*GALATIANS 1:1 . . . God the Father, who raised him from the dead;) {cf. 1 Thess 1:10}

<>ROMANS 8:11 . . . the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, . . .

+JOHN 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

2,933 posted on 08/18/2007 8:40:12 PM PDT by MHGinTN (You've had life support. Promote life support for those in the womb.)
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To: Forest Keeper; D-fendr
Sin is not held against us for Christ’s sake

I disagree. You know that +Paul always (and eve "Peter" in 2 Peter) says that "God raised Jesus" and the Creed says "Jesus rose [Himself]" because at no time is Father without the Son and the Son without the Father or the Spirit with out either. At no point does anyone call the Holy spirit in the NT "Lord." But the Greed does.

Presumably, if [Adam and Eve] had never sinned, then they would still be there today, waiting for an occasional visit by God

Occasional? How do you figure that? Is God not present all the time in someone who is spiritually pure? Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God. The pristine are in continuous communion with God. Adam and Eve did not have to go through hell, literally speaking, just to get back to (Paradise) where they started from!

How do you figure satan snatched them out of God's hands?

Of course the devil snatched them from God. Even your favorite, St. Paul, admits to the same (and Christ died so he may release us), but you probably don't remember those verses. In fact, +Paul was convinced we knew how the devil things, "for we are not ignorant of his schemes" (2 Cor 2:11). That we were enslaved to sin and death was the devil's doing, "[f]or the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it. (Rom 8:20) Note he not just man or earth, but the whole creation.

If you really think that true believing Protestants think it's fine for them to commit murder because they are already forgiven for it

No but they believe that if they do commit murder they will still go to heaven. So, it all goes back to "we are not violent but can be driven to violence" (amid the more certain you are of your salvation the more easily can one driven to violence; what do you have to lose?)

2,961 posted on 08/18/2007 10:21:49 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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