I disagree. You know that +Paul always (and eve "Peter" in 2 Peter) says that "God raised Jesus" and the Creed says "Jesus rose [Himself]" because at no time is Father without the Son and the Son without the Father or the Spirit with out either. At no point does anyone call the Holy spirit in the NT "Lord." But the Greed does.
Presumably, if [Adam and Eve] had never sinned, then they would still be there today, waiting for an occasional visit by God
Occasional? How do you figure that? Is God not present all the time in someone who is spiritually pure? Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God. The pristine are in continuous communion with God. Adam and Eve did not have to go through hell, literally speaking, just to get back to (Paradise) where they started from!
How do you figure satan snatched them out of God's hands?
Of course the devil snatched them from God. Even your favorite, St. Paul, admits to the same (and Christ died so he may release us), but you probably don't remember those verses. In fact, +Paul was convinced we knew how the devil things, "for we are not ignorant of his schemes" (2 Cor 2:11). That we were enslaved to sin and death was the devil's doing, "[f]or the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it. (Rom 8:20) Note he not just man or earth, but the whole creation.
If you really think that true believing Protestants think it's fine for them to commit murder because they are already forgiven for it
No but they believe that if they do commit murder they will still go to heaven. So, it all goes back to "we are not violent but can be driven to violence" (amid the more certain you are of your salvation the more easily can one driven to violence; what do you have to lose?)
Please see this recent post by MHGinTN on this very issue. ( 2933)
FK: "Presumably, if [Adam and Eve] had never sinned, then they would still be there today, waiting for an occasional visit by God."
Occasional? How do you figure that? Is God not present all the time in someone who is spiritually pure? Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God. The pristine are in continuous communion with God. (emphasis added)
No, to my knowledge we are given no indication at all that the Spirit indwelt Adam and Eve before the Fall. Do you have any evidence? Jesus sent the Spirit to sinners. Adam had no need for salvation before he sinned, so the Spirit should not have been in him until when and if he ever repented.
Of course the devil snatched them from God. Even your favorite, St. Paul, admits to the same (and Christ died so he may release us), but you probably don't remember those verses.
You're right, I don't remember those verses. Brother, could you spare a dime? :) We were all born equally slaves to sin, but God never lost control of His elect. The elect were and are always in His hand. Barring the usual exceptions, ALL those God predestined did grow up to become believers and followers of Christ. satan stole NOTHING from God.
Let's say that you and I are at a restaurant, and after the meal you, for no apparent reason, put a $100 bill on the table. Let's say that I just pick it up, while looking you straight in the eye, and then walk away. You say nothing. Did I just "steal" or "snatch" from you? Of course not because it was with your tacit approval. It is the same with God and satan, AND, God retains 100% control throughout.
No but [Protestants] believe that if they do commit murder they will still go to heaven.
In the abstract, "Yes", murder does not disqualify one from Heaven. Moses and David were both unlawful (i.e. without God's order) murderers, for example. But no true believing Protestant takes this as a "license" to murder. Instead, we learn from the mistakes of even the greatest Biblical figures. There is simply no connection with our theology and the implications YOUR like-mindeds ascribe to it.
We Reformers "SAY" we follow scripture. Well, what does scripture say??? Does it support signing a "belief" form and then going out and sinning for the rest of our lives? NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO. "BY NO MEANS" says scripture. So, THAT'S what we ALWAYS preach, but somehow, we are not "allowed" to have that belief by the Apostlics because it doesn't fit their paradigm of us? That doesn't seem very fair. (pout) :)