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To: kosta50; D-fendr
First, did Noah and Abraham and Isaac and Job base their faith on the scriptures and promises therein?

They based their faith on whatever God's revelation to them was at the time. There was a general faith among the people from as early as the end of Gen. 4.

Second, you are saying that your faith is based on the scriptures, when it is really based on your interpretation of the scriptures.

My faith is based on God's revelation to me. Part of that is the scriptures and part is His inner workings of me. I couldn't just read a Bible and have instant faith. God had to do more by revealing the truth to me (including interpretation), as He did with all other believers.

Based on this, your faith is not based on the same foundation as that of Noah, Abraham and Isaac because theirs was not based on scriptures (didn't exist yet).

God's changing of the heart is the same.

Everybody "loves" God when things are going good. The motive behind this "love" matters. Just because I think I am good or love God doesn't mean I am good or love God, or that because (I think) I love God (for whatever reasons) I "deserve" to go to heaven.

That's right, love for God can be genuine or false. Honest self-examination can be useful in this area.

You said Ghandi is in hell because he rejected Christ. Did he? Or did he reject Christianity (of which there are many, as you know, every one of them claiming to be the "true" version).

I don't know for sure where Ghandi is, I just made a guess based on the Wiki bio. As I remember, that said that many Christian friends had presented the Gospel to him and he rejected it every time. In addition, he claimed to be a Christian AND a Jew AND a Hindu, etc. I don't see how one can reject the Gospels, claim a one-world religion philosophy, and yet be good with Christ. It was God's decision, so he is wherever he is supposed to be. I wouldn't guess that I'd want to trade places with him though. :)

Who is faced with a greater dilemma? The ones who know or the ones who can only hope? Those who come to God without guarantees of course. Enduring in hope is harder than enduring with certainty.

I don't see why it should even be a dilemma. There's no need for it if we do not earn our salvation. But I understand what you're saying. I would rather have assurance than not, so in that sense perhaps it is "harder" for those who do not have assurance.

2,531 posted on 08/15/2007 12:24:34 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper; D-fendr
My faith is based on God's revelation to me. Part of that is the scriptures and part is His inner workings of me. I couldn't just read a Bible and have instant faith. God had to do more by revealing the truth to me (including interpretation), as He did with all other believers.

And how do you know it's God?

God's changing of the heart is the same

Then you don't need scriptures. There goes the whole sola scriptura supsersition.

Besides, your Reformed theology tells you that if God wants you to believe you shall believe and if not, no amount of scirptures and good works and what not will help. It will happen one way or another.

Trouble is, Reformed theology discards the biblical verse that says that satan can appear as the Angle of Light. He is craftier than we are, remember...?

You have no guarantees, FK, other than your own ability to convince yourself that you do, and what guarantee is that? The voices you may hear could be God's, satan's or just hallucinations.

Honest self-examination can be useful in this area.

Everyone things his thinking is honest. Arians and Gnostics truly believe(d) what they preach(ed). So do the LDS and other cults and denomiantions. That's why Christ establish His Church: to prevent self-deception.

In addition, he [Ghandi] claimed to be a Christian AND a Jew AND a Hindu, etc

Because we are all created in God's image, or do you think that some humanity is not really "human?" do you think the reporbate are not "human?"

Do me a favor and read Leo Tolstoy's The Coffe House of Surat. It addresses this issue. Ghandi may have been familiar with it. Worth reading.

I would rather have assurance than not, so in that sense perhaps it is "harder" for those who do not have assurance

You have assurance that you will perservere? From what I know about you, you don't strike me as a violent man. But I am sure you could be driven to violence. Perhaps you are confusing God's perserverance with ours? I have no doubt God can perservere; but can we? I think history and daily news are full of examples that prove many can't.

2,534 posted on 08/15/2007 1:27:46 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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