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To: Forest Keeper; D-fendr
My faith is based on God's revelation to me. Part of that is the scriptures and part is His inner workings of me. I couldn't just read a Bible and have instant faith. God had to do more by revealing the truth to me (including interpretation), as He did with all other believers.

And how do you know it's God?

God's changing of the heart is the same

Then you don't need scriptures. There goes the whole sola scriptura supsersition.

Besides, your Reformed theology tells you that if God wants you to believe you shall believe and if not, no amount of scirptures and good works and what not will help. It will happen one way or another.

Trouble is, Reformed theology discards the biblical verse that says that satan can appear as the Angle of Light. He is craftier than we are, remember...?

You have no guarantees, FK, other than your own ability to convince yourself that you do, and what guarantee is that? The voices you may hear could be God's, satan's or just hallucinations.

Honest self-examination can be useful in this area.

Everyone things his thinking is honest. Arians and Gnostics truly believe(d) what they preach(ed). So do the LDS and other cults and denomiantions. That's why Christ establish His Church: to prevent self-deception.

In addition, he [Ghandi] claimed to be a Christian AND a Jew AND a Hindu, etc

Because we are all created in God's image, or do you think that some humanity is not really "human?" do you think the reporbate are not "human?"

Do me a favor and read Leo Tolstoy's The Coffe House of Surat. It addresses this issue. Ghandi may have been familiar with it. Worth reading.

I would rather have assurance than not, so in that sense perhaps it is "harder" for those who do not have assurance

You have assurance that you will perservere? From what I know about you, you don't strike me as a violent man. But I am sure you could be driven to violence. Perhaps you are confusing God's perserverance with ours? I have no doubt God can perservere; but can we? I think history and daily news are full of examples that prove many can't.

2,534 posted on 08/15/2007 1:27:46 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50

Excellent point - the origin of the voices is key.

Where the one is gathered with his Bible, his recliner, his pipe, slippers and brandy, what voices does he hear? And what gives that individual complete authority to interpret? Why does that individual wish so hard to interpret?

I think that it is appeal to ego, to ease, and to an overcompensated inferiority complex. There are quite a few example posts that lend support to this.


2,536 posted on 08/15/2007 1:55:23 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (V. Angelus Domini nuntiavit Mariae. R. Et concepit de Spiritu Sancto.)
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To: kosta50; D-fendr
And how do you know it's God?

Because God's revelation to me leads me away from myself and toward scriptures. Not just any scriptures, but uniquely the word of our God. I'm not led to the Koran or the BOM or anything else.

FK: "God's changing of the heart is the same."

Then you don't need scriptures. There goes the whole sola scriptura superstition.

No, when there is a change of heart it is to believe in something. That "something" coincides with the fundamentals of core Christianity. One cannot be a Christian without agreeing with these fundamentals. I think you have even said that before.

Trouble is, Reformed theology discards the biblical verse that says that satan can appear as the Angle of Light. He is craftier than we are, remember...?

I don't see any trouble because I cannot recall the verse that says that satan is more powerful than God. While satan can outwit me alone, satan cannot snatch me out of God's hands. He just can't do it.

FK: "In addition, he [Ghandi] claimed to be a Christian AND a Jew AND a Hindu, etc."

Because we are all created in God's image, or do you think that some humanity is not really "human?" do you think the reprobate are not "human?"

On earth, only humans can be reprobated, so they must be human. But do you really think that believing in a one-world religion that teaches partly Godly doctrine and partly un-Godly doctrine is a good example of humanity? Oh wait, now that I think about it, it is!. You are right. :)

Thanks for the Tolstoy link. I found the story to be very readable and interesting. For me, the money line of the whole thing was by the Chinaman, the hero of the story: "Can any temple compare with that which God Himself has built to unite all men in one faith and one religion?" That is a very prophetic statement, since at some time in the future a very wise man will say just that, and many will follow him. His name will be anti-Christ. :)

You have assurance that you will persevere? From what I know about you, you don't strike me as a violent man. But I am sure you could be driven to violence. Perhaps you are confusing God's perseverance with ours? I have no doubt God can persevere; but can we? I think history and daily news are full of examples that prove many can't.

I won't persevere because of me, I will because of God, so that could be considered God's perseverance. (He will persevere in the good work He began in me, etc.) I have no problem with that. ...... And yes, I absolutely could be driven to violence if I turn away from God to a certain degree. I have certainly lost my temper before as a Christian, so it's just a different level of the same thing.

2,615 posted on 08/17/2007 1:59:23 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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