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To: Forest Keeper; D-fendr
We should always be judging ourselves in our daily walk, as scripture says concerning the Lord's Supper

I can certainly agree with that.

All I can say is what I believe based on the scriptures and the promises therein

First, did Noah and Abraham and Isaac and Job base their faith on the scriptures and promises therein? Second, you are saying  that your faith is based on the scriptures, when it is really based on your interpretation of the scriptures.

Based on this, your faith is not based on the same foundation as that of Noah, Abraham and Isaac because theirs was not based on scriptures (didn't exist yet).

Except for "I love God," if those are the reasons that they give for being entitled to Heaven, then they are toast

Everybody "loves" God when things are going good. The motive behind this "love" matters. Just because I think I am good or love God doesn't mean I am good or love God, or that because (I think) I love God (for whatever reasons) I "deserve" to go to heaven .

This "knowledge" is not based on anything any other Christian cannot have. So, there is no magic about it. It's just based on scripture

Again, this brings up the question of Abraham, Noah, Job and Isaac and their faith. They "knew" but it wasn't based on scripture. This also raises the possibility that others who don't know the scripture also "know." You said Ghandi is in hell because he rejected Christ. Did he? Or did he reject Christianity (of which there are many, as you know, every one of them claiming to be the "true" version).

FK: "I think it is also admirable to love God with assurance."

Kosta: But is it easier?

FK: I don't know why it would be

Who is faced with a greater dilemma? The ones who know or the ones who can only hope? Those who come to God without guarantees of course. Enduring in hope is harder than enduring with certainty.  

2,468 posted on 08/14/2007 8:30:49 AM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; D-fendr
First, did Noah and Abraham and Isaac and Job base their faith on the scriptures and promises therein?

They based their faith on whatever God's revelation to them was at the time. There was a general faith among the people from as early as the end of Gen. 4.

Second, you are saying that your faith is based on the scriptures, when it is really based on your interpretation of the scriptures.

My faith is based on God's revelation to me. Part of that is the scriptures and part is His inner workings of me. I couldn't just read a Bible and have instant faith. God had to do more by revealing the truth to me (including interpretation), as He did with all other believers.

Based on this, your faith is not based on the same foundation as that of Noah, Abraham and Isaac because theirs was not based on scriptures (didn't exist yet).

God's changing of the heart is the same.

Everybody "loves" God when things are going good. The motive behind this "love" matters. Just because I think I am good or love God doesn't mean I am good or love God, or that because (I think) I love God (for whatever reasons) I "deserve" to go to heaven.

That's right, love for God can be genuine or false. Honest self-examination can be useful in this area.

You said Ghandi is in hell because he rejected Christ. Did he? Or did he reject Christianity (of which there are many, as you know, every one of them claiming to be the "true" version).

I don't know for sure where Ghandi is, I just made a guess based on the Wiki bio. As I remember, that said that many Christian friends had presented the Gospel to him and he rejected it every time. In addition, he claimed to be a Christian AND a Jew AND a Hindu, etc. I don't see how one can reject the Gospels, claim a one-world religion philosophy, and yet be good with Christ. It was God's decision, so he is wherever he is supposed to be. I wouldn't guess that I'd want to trade places with him though. :)

Who is faced with a greater dilemma? The ones who know or the ones who can only hope? Those who come to God without guarantees of course. Enduring in hope is harder than enduring with certainty.

I don't see why it should even be a dilemma. There's no need for it if we do not earn our salvation. But I understand what you're saying. I would rather have assurance than not, so in that sense perhaps it is "harder" for those who do not have assurance.

2,531 posted on 08/15/2007 12:24:34 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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