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To: kosta50; D-fendr
FK: "I believe that my surrender to Christ was genuine."

I have no doubts that it was/is. But we can't be our own judges. ...

That's right. (And I have no doubts about you. :) We cannot be our own FINAL judges because that job is already taken. (We should always be judging ourselves in our daily walk, as scripture says concerning the Lord's Supper.) All I can say is what I believe based on the scriptures and the promises therein.

Many people will say "I don't steal, I have compassion, I am a good person, I love God...I know when I die I will go to heaven." Sure sounds like "I earned it" if you know what I mean.

I do, and you're exactly right. Except for "I love God", if those are the reasons that they give for being entitled to Heaven, then they are toast. As you said, many people are going to be like this, and if I am one of them, then it is all my fault. My assurance means that I know that is not possible, to the extent a human can "know" anything. This "knowledge" is not based on anything any other Christian cannot have. So, there is no magic about it. It's just based on scripture.

FK: "I think it is also admirable to love God with assurance."

But is it easier?

I don't know why it would be. We (Protestants/Baptists in the whole) have to fight against the temptation of resting on our laurels, which we MUST do. I admit that can be difficult, so it's a little different. The more mature person has greater activity with the Holy Spirit so this is less of a problem, but across the board I'm sure there are many who think everything is already locked in the bank. So, maybe it's true that our respective laities face different issues, and we all should just strive toward obeying the Lord because we genuinely love God and are commanded to.

2,453 posted on 08/14/2007 12:37:07 AM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper; D-fendr
We should always be judging ourselves in our daily walk, as scripture says concerning the Lord's Supper

I can certainly agree with that.

All I can say is what I believe based on the scriptures and the promises therein

First, did Noah and Abraham and Isaac and Job base their faith on the scriptures and promises therein? Second, you are saying  that your faith is based on the scriptures, when it is really based on your interpretation of the scriptures.

Based on this, your faith is not based on the same foundation as that of Noah, Abraham and Isaac because theirs was not based on scriptures (didn't exist yet).

Except for "I love God," if those are the reasons that they give for being entitled to Heaven, then they are toast

Everybody "loves" God when things are going good. The motive behind this "love" matters. Just because I think I am good or love God doesn't mean I am good or love God, or that because (I think) I love God (for whatever reasons) I "deserve" to go to heaven .

This "knowledge" is not based on anything any other Christian cannot have. So, there is no magic about it. It's just based on scripture

Again, this brings up the question of Abraham, Noah, Job and Isaac and their faith. They "knew" but it wasn't based on scripture. This also raises the possibility that others who don't know the scripture also "know." You said Ghandi is in hell because he rejected Christ. Did he? Or did he reject Christianity (of which there are many, as you know, every one of them claiming to be the "true" version).

FK: "I think it is also admirable to love God with assurance."

Kosta: But is it easier?

FK: I don't know why it would be

Who is faced with a greater dilemma? The ones who know or the ones who can only hope? Those who come to God without guarantees of course. Enduring in hope is harder than enduring with certainty.  

2,468 posted on 08/14/2007 8:30:49 AM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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