He foreknew them and He tells us that the "foreknowing" is before they are in the womb:
Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee,, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations."
That doesn't mean He based the foreknowing on the free decisions they would later make in life. He knew them from before they were born. He knew what they did in the first age.
I am a Christian. Jews read the same scripture and see and believe different things. We are not imitators of Jews.
I also am Christian. Part of our bible, it's very foundation is Jewish. You cannot divorce yourself from everything that Bible teaches nor do you have to imitate them. They are part of us, or we of them. We are brothers and sisters with the same God. Their eyes will be opened to Christ being the Messiah - it is all part of God's plan that He had from the foundation (the beginning of this 2nd age).
Look, if Satan was punished and condemned by God in the Garden of Eden, because by then he has supposed fallen from grace, then what is he doing in Job talking to God as if nothing happened?
Genesis 3:14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent,"Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
He is cursed above all - he is the only one that is already condemned to death. (The fallen angels are also but he is the only one by name). "Going upon thy belly" is a term of humiliation. The next verse tells us that he will be around for a long, long time:
15. And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her Seed; It shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise His heel."
That was the first prophecy of the Bible. Satan, the serpent, did bruise His heel when He was nailed to the cross but Christ will bruise his head at the end of days and that is a killing blow. (I wonder what the "thy seed and her Seed" could mean???)
So, he has fallen from grace but he is, or was, allowed to be in the garden, to tempt Jesus on earth and also to be in heaven talking to God (Job). He is now there, being held by Michael but will be released. His spirit however roams earth freely as does God's Holy Spirit.
As the other FReeper pointed out in another one of your posts, you believe that Cain was a product of sexual union between Eve and Satan.
I do - (enmity between thy seed and her Seed). There are many other scriptures that point to that union too, are you open to discussing them?
Ping...There are several scriptures that point to an age before our present age. How do you and others deal with those?
Kosta...Which ones?
See posts 2119 and 2086.
......Ping
The early Christians understood this very well
“Our Lord Jesus Christ, however, who came to liberate mankind, in which both males and females are destined to salvation, was not averse to males, for He took the form of a male, nor to females, for of a female He was born. Besides, there is a great mystery here: that just as death comes to us through a woman, Life is born to us through a woman; that the devil, defeated, would be tormented by each nature, feminine and masculine, since he had taken delight in the defection of both.”
Saint Augustine, Christian Combat (22,24) 396 A.D.
Lets take a look at Genesis 3:15 and Isaiah 7:14...
“I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel.” Genesis 3:15
“Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign. Behold a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son and his name shall be called Emmanuel.” Isaiah 7:14
“And Jesus said to her, “O woman, what have you to do with me? My hour has not yet come.” John 2:4
The use of the word ‘woman’ in this verse is a reference to Genesis 3:15 where GOD promised salvation through the offspring of the ‘woman’. He will come through her to crush the head of the serpent. Jesus reminded us in John 2:4, that He is the Saviour promised in Genesis 3:15.
“When Jesus saw his mother, and the disciple whom he loved standing near, he said to his mother, “Woman, behold, your son!” Then he said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother!” And from that hour the disciple took her to his own home.” John 19:26-27
Again a reference to Genesis 3:15 reinforcing the woman of that verse as being His mother.
“What would you have me do woman?”
John 2:4
This is a pivotal verse, in that Jesus has affirmed that He is the second Adam, and His mother Mary is the Second Eve.
In order to put this verse in its proper perspective, we must first look at the word woman as used in several places in the Old and New Testaments.
GOD made woman from the rib of Adam in Genesis 2:22. In the very next verse, Adam said, “She now is bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called woman, for from man she has been taken”. Notice that the first woman came from man, and after that man came from woman. Adam is a “TYPE” of Jesus Christ as shown in Romans 5:14 and 1Corinthians 15:44-49.
In Genesis 3, the word woman is mentioned eight times. In Genesis 3:15 we have the Protoevangelium, the promise of a redeemer after the fall of man, a woman, whose Son (he) will crush the head of the serpent. Did you notice that the Messiah and His Mother are together there in Genesis 3:15?
“...Just as through one transgression condemnation came upon all, so through one righteous act acquittal and life came to all. For just as through the disobedience of one person (Eve) the many were made sinners, so through the obedience of one (Mary) the many will be made righteous.” Romans 5:18-19
I have posted the following typology many times.
Here it is again.....
Mary is the “New Eve”
Old Testament Eve- Verses New Testament Mary
Created without original sin, Gen 2:22-25 = Created without original sin, Luke 1:28,42
There was a virgin, Gen 2:22-25 = There is a virgin, Luke 1:27-34
There was a tree, Gen 2:16-17 = There was a cross made from a tree, Matt 27:31-35
There was a fallen angel, Gen 3:1-13 = There was a loyal angel, Luke 1:26-38
A satanic serpent tempted her, Gen 3:4-6 = A satanic dragon threatened her, Rev 12:4-6,13-17
There was pride, Gen 3:4-7 = There was humility, Luke 1:38
There was disobedience, Gen 3:4-7 = There was obedience, Luke 1:38
There was a fall, Gen 3:16-20 = There was redemption, John 19:34
Death came through Eve, Gen 3:17-19 = Life Himself came through Mary, John 10:28
She was mentioned in Genesis 3:2-22 = She was mentioned in Genesis 3:15
Could not approach the tree of life Gen 3:24 = Approached the “Tree of Life”, John 19:25
An angel kept her out of Eden, Gen 3:24 = An angel protected her, Rev 12:7-9
Prophecy of the coming of Christ, Gen 3:15 = The Incarnation of Christ, Luke 2:7
Firstborn was a man child, Gen 4:1 = Firstborn was a man child, Luke 2:7, Rev 12:5
Firstborn became a sinner, Gen 4:1-8 = Firstborn was the Savior, Luke 2:34
The mother of all the living, Gen 3:20 = The spiritual mother of all the living, John 19:27
The Early Christians saw this very clear...
“
He became man by the Virgin, in order that the disobedience which proceeded from the serpent might receive its destruction in the same manner in which it derived its origin. For Eve, who was a virgin and undefiled, having conceived the word of the serpent, brought forth disobedience and death. But the Virgin Mary received faith and joy, when the angel Gabriel announced the good tidings to her that the Spirit of the Lord would come upon her, and the power of the Highest would overshadow her: wherefore also the Holy Thing begotten of her is the Son of God; and she replied, ‘Be it unto me according to thy word.’ And by her has He been born, to whom we have proved so many Scriptures refer, and by whom God destroys both the serpent and those angels and men who are like him; but works deliverance from death to those who repent of their wickedness and believe upon Him.” Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho, 100 (A.D. 155)
“In accordance with this design, Mary the Virgin is found obedient, saying, ‘Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word.’ But Eve was disobedient; for she did not obey when as yet she was a virgin. And even as she, having indeed a husband, Adam, but being nevertheless as yet a virgin (for in Paradise ‘they were both naked, and were not ashamed,’ inasmuch as they, having been created a short time previously, had no understanding of the procreation of children: for it was necessary that they should first come to adult age, and then multiply from that time onward), having become disobedient, was made the cause of death, both to herself and to the entire human race; so also did Mary, having a man betrothed [to her], and being nevertheless a virgin, by yielding obedience, become the cause of salvation, both to herself and the whole human race. And on this account does the law term a woman betrothed to a man, the wife of him who had betrothed her, although she was as yet a virgin; thus indicating the back-reference from Mary to Eve, because what is joined together could not otherwise be put asunder than by inversion of the process by which these bonds of union had arisen; s so that the former ties be cancelled by the latter, that the latter may set the former again at liberty Wherefore also Luke, commencing the genealogy with the Lord, carried it back to Adam, indicating that it was He who regenerated them into the Gospel of life, and not they Him. And thus also it was that the knot of Eve’s disobedience was loosed by the obedience of Mary. For what the virgin Eve had bound fast through unbelief, this did the virgin Mary set free through faith.” Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 3:22 (A.D. 180).
Lastly,it is Mary That is the Women Clothed with the sun in the book of Revelation
We have seen that there is no sun as seen in the heavens as we have in our earthly sky, but yet we do see a woman clothed with the sun in heaven in Revelation 12:1.
The Book of Revelation speaks of souls and spirits as being in heaven (Rev 1:4,6:9,20:4), but in verse 12:1, it does not say the soul, or spirit of a woman as being seen does it? No, it says a woman. The Greek word used for woman here is gune which means a woman. If you check the definition of the word “woman” in a dictionary, you will find that it defines the word as, “an adult female human being”. A human being has a body, a soul, and a spirit (1Thess 5:3). Souls and spirits are gender neutral, so the fact that Saint John saw a woman adds gender to the equation, and gender can only come from the body. Therefore, what Saint John saw in heaven was a female human person, and that person had to have a body, a soul, and a spirit.
I Wish You A Blessed Day!
That doesn't mean he "pre-made" him. He foreknew of him, what he will be like; but Jeremiah soul did not pre-exist his body.
I also am Christian. Part of our bible, it's very foundation is Jewish. You cannot divorce yourself from everything that Bible teaches nor do you have to imitate them
I don't think so. Jews believe that one makes himself acceptable to God by works, not by faith. Christians believe we can never make ourselves worthy of salvation.
We are brothers and sisters with the same God
By that logic, the Muslims believe in the same God. Jewish God is not a Christian God. Allah is not a Christian God. It takes little imagination to see that Christian God is different than either the YHWH or Allah in how Christians, Jews and Muslims experience their God.
Their eyes will be opened to Christ being the Messiah
We certainly pray and hope the whole world comes to Christ, not just the Jews. Personally, I doubt they will ever consider it. To them Christianity i sa bogus cult; after Jamnia (90 AD) they cursed Jesus of Nazareth, and commanded others to do the same. I am not sure if they still do.
So, he has fallen from grace but he is, or was, allowed to be in the garden, to tempt Jesus on earth and also to be in heaven talking to God (Job)
So, Satan was back in heaven after his fall from grace? LOL!