Will the Pope's Pronouncement Set Ecumenism Back a Hundred Years? (Challenge to Apostolicity)

Progressive Theology ^ | July 07

[kosta50]

Acts 9: [17] So Anani'as departed and entered the house. And laying his hands on him he said, "Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus who appeared to you on the road by which you came, has sent me that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit."

Sound more like Baptism to me then ordination (Holy Orders, or Call), but this is different:

Now there were at Antioch, in the church that was there, prophets and teachers: Barnabas, and Simeon who was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.

While they were ministering to the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, "Set apart for Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them."

Then, when they had fasted and prayed and laid their hands on them, they sent them away.

So, being sent out by the Holy Spirit, they went down to Seleucia and from there they sailed to Cyprus. [Acts 13:1-4]

Sound like ordination to me...but then you might not kow the difference. :)

[kosta50]

Harry Potter overload?

[adiaireton8]

People don't get sick or die for messing up a mere memorial (1 Cor 11:30). When people die (think of Nadab and Abihu, and Uzzah), it is because of sacrilege regarding the Real Presence. Since you don't have Apostolic succession, you don't have to worry about this problem, because all you have are crackers and grape juice. So you are right, in your case it is just a mere memorial. But not for those of us with Apostolic succession.

-A8

[kosta50]

What is this? Have you not heard that our God is One God in Three Persons

Like I said in a previous post, those Protestants who claim to believe in the Holy Trinity really do not share the same belief even on this essential pillar of Christian faith, but rather make up their own concepts (not necessarily original) that only use the same terminology. How deceptive!

So, according to you, it really doesn't matter, does it, whether it is the Son, the Father or the Spirit? I don't know what you believe, but if this is what you do believe, then it's not Christian.

Mormons talk about "trinity" as well, but unlike you they seem to separate them completely, thus believing in three separate gods to which they have attached Trintarian names. Equally deceptive!

The indwelling Spirit does not confirm your above statement as His own, so no, I do not accept it

LOL!!! And what if I say to you that my indwelling Spirit does confirm it?

[kosta50]

Are there Three??? Or is there One???

Three Hypostases in one essence. Do you understand the difference? They are not freely interchangable, as in some early heresies, and not three separated Gods as in the Mormon religion.

[kosta50]

See kosta, you have met another Montanus

Perhaps, and even more likely, a second Sabellius, and his "three faces of one God" modality.

[kosta50]

That is pure unadulterated nonsense

So, just out of curiosity, if Protestants and Baptists believe the priest do "hocus-pocus" with sacraments (an "empty ritual") what do you think is "laying of the hands" all about? Empty ritual? Magic?

[P-Marlowe]

See kosta, you have met another Montanus Perhaps, and even more likely, a second Sabellius, and his "three faces of one God" modality.

I suppose you guys think you're cute?

[xzins]

:>)

Rural minister.

(BTW, I’m not a Harry Potter fan. Not for religious reasons, but because I’ve always found it corny. I’ve never been able to make it through an entire movie or book.)

[xzins]

what if...

The fruits of her indwelling Spirit are kinder and more loving than yours.

[blue-duncan]

How many have died died taking communion unworthily at your church? How many have become sick for taking communion unworthily at your church?

Where is it written in the scripture that only one in the “apostolic succession” can serve communion? In fact, where is it written in the scripture that the taking of communion is commanded? In none of the Gospels is it commanded and in fact, John does not even mention the bread and the cup. In John 6 when Jesus mentions eating His flesh and drinking His blood He is talking about a past action, not a continuing feasting. Only Paul mentions communion as a memorial, but he does not make it mandatory, nor does he make it salvific. He says “for as oft as you...” and he never mentions who can serve it.

[kosta50]

Kumbaya ecumenicism is the mereological equivalent of calling good 'evil'

Yup, that's what it is! Anf the author is the devil himself. I hope the followers of such path to perdition will realize that they are clevery deceived before it's too late.

[kosta50]

I suppose you guys think you're cute?

Not I. Are you?

[xzins]

The New Testament is the testimony of the Apostles.

Apostolic succession is not an idea even mentioned in scripture.

[kosta50]

The fruits of her indwelling Spirit are kinder and more loving than yours

Spoken objectively, no doubt. But what makes you the authority to judge?

[wmfights]

Likewise in our churches and denominations. There is an overall allegiance to Christ that will always reject unlawful orders of those appointed over us.

FWIW, we select our leadership from among the faithful just as our ancestors did during the Apostolic Era and beyond. We follow our leaders as long as they do not contradict Scripture.

[blue-duncan]

“what do you think is “laying of the hands” all about? Empty ritual? Magic?”

I suppose it depends on what the “layer on of hands” believes he/she is doing. It is not empty ritual to corporately, by the Holy Spirit, identify someone who has been called of God for a ministry by laying on of hands, but to think that one is specially possessed with the authority to pass on the Holy Spirit to another is to believe that Benny Hinn is special too.

[xzins]

Jesus’ words....”By their fruits you will know them.”

But, what is your authority for even asking the question “by whose authority?”

[irishtenor]

Like I said in a previous post, those Protestants who claim to believe in the Holy Trinity really do not share the same belief even on this essential pillar of Christian faith, but rather make up their own concepts (not necessarily original) that only use the same terminology. How deceptive!

Back it up with fact. Every Christian I know of believes in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

[kosta50]

but to think that one is specially possessed with the authority to pass on the Holy Spirit to another is to believe that Benny Hinn is special too

No one believes that! The priest merely petitions the holy Spirit to come and affects a change — a sacrament.

From the Orthodox Divine Liturgy:

The Priest (in a low voice): Lord, God Almighty, You alone are holy. You accept a sacrifice of praise from those who call upon You with their whole heart. Receive also the prayer of us sinners and let it reach Your holy altar. Enable us to bring before You gifts and spiritual sacrifices for our sins and for the transgressions of the people...Once again we offer to You this spiritual worship without the shedding of blood, and we ask, pray, and entreat You: send down Your Holy Spirit upon us and upon these gifts here presented. And make this bread the precious Body of Your Christ

The priests, who considers himself a sinner, humbly give praise to God on behalf of the congregation and asks that, in His goodness, His Spirit comes and affects the change.

No hocus-pocus, no magic, no arrogance.