Posted on 07/20/2007 8:52:53 AM PDT by Between the Lines
LOUISVILLE, Ky. - Instead of taking offense at a recent Vatican statement reasserting the primacy of the Roman Catholic Church, evangelicals should seize the chance to respond with equal candor that “any church defined by the claims of the papacy is no true church,” according to a prominent Southern Baptist leader.
The Rev. R. Albert Mohler Jr., president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, wrote on his blog that he appreciated the document’s clarity in voicing a key distinction between Catholics and Protestants over papal authority.
He said those differences are often forgotten “in this era of confusion and theological laxity.”
“We should together realize and admit that this is an issue worthy of division,” Mohler wrote.
“The Roman Catholic Church is willing to go so far as to assert that any church that denies the papacy is no true church. Evangelicals should be equally candid in asserting that any church defined by the claims of the papacy is no true church.
“This is not a theological game for children, it is the honest recognition of the importance of the question.”
This month, the Vatican released a document restating the contention that the Roman Catholicism is the one, true path to salvation. Other Christian communities are either defective or not true churches, the document said, restating the views of a 2000 document.
The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which Pope Benedict XVI headed before becoming pope, said it issued the new document because some contemporary theological interpretations of the Second Vatican Council’s ecumenical intent had been “erroneous or ambiguous” and had prompted confusion and doubt.
(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.msn.com ...
that’s bishops from everywhere from England to what is now iran and THOUSANDS of clergy and laity, who were all united by the same faith, and guided by the Holy Spirit.
(protestantism by contrast beleives the Holy Spirit comes and the beck and call of Calvin or Luther)
then that faith originates not in Christ but with Martin Luther and sola-scriptura.
It’s a faith Martin Luther invented...
That would depend a bit on that separation. I am never in perfect agreement with anyone that I'm in Christian fellowship with.
We are told in scripture that “there is only One who is good” (Mt 19:17). Similarly we are told to “be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect” (Mt 5:48). The implication is that we are not, as men, perfect, since one does not tell someone who already is perfect, to “be perfect”.
Godly men, guided by the Holy Spirit, are still men, and remain fallible. Scripture again tells us that even the ‘elect’ will be deceived (Mk 13:22). Thus in part, the need to be in fellowship with other followers of Christ, and to remain humble before each other and the world. “For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears” (1 Cor 13:9) (While some consider this to refer to the church, I think the passages preceding it make it apparent that this is not the case, and most likely it refers to the return of Christ or to our death.)
I have had the pleasure of worshiping and sharing fellowship with a wide variety of churches and denominations, either as a guest, a visitor, or as a ‘member’ of the congregation. Each has critiques of its doctrine, each has failings within its leadership, each has areas where others see unscriptural elements... yet each has also contained Brothers and Sisters in Christ, and each has taught me something of His power and love. God has never been limited by men in how or who he chooses to serve Him, and we are told that “faith comes through hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ” (Ro 10:17). It is God who truly calls men, not us, though he often uses a human agent. If you’re aware of any church on this world which is perfect in all ways, then please let me know where to visit them.
I would probably be uncomfortable there though, as I am a man of unclean lips.
Absolutely Kawaii, though the indwelling of the Holy Spirit does not mean that we become perfect. He is our promised seal, our guide in all truth (Jn 16:13), but the process of ‘sanctification’ is never complete in us. If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us (1Jn 1:8).
Once again you are using human argument as a substitute for faith.
no I’m arguing that Christ did not lie.
you’re putting your faith in the rational arguments of INDIVIDUALS 1400 years AFTER Christ. I’m putting it in 7 councils where the Holy Spirit MUST have been if we beleive Christ promise in scripture.
The same faith that bears one again. Believing in Jesus and believing in the Word of Christ are the exact same thing.
You are making a false connection.
Tiki,
This in for a penny in for a pound argument that ‘if you accept the authority of the Church founders’ you must be catholic and if you believe the Pope Leo and Clement were Medici thugs so the reformation was called for you reject the early Church is really beneath you.
“Who had/has the authority to proclaim the Scripture as the inerrant Word of God?”
Scripture points to itself.. Paul knew the scriptures as well as anyone and there was a process for vetting the cannon. It included things like anything that Christ called scripture was included (also extended to the apostles so when peter called Paul’s letters scripture they were included). There is, of course, much more the the process that went on I would recommended Systematic Theology by Gruden.
You’re denying the Holy Spirit...
Jhn 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Jhn 14:17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Jhn 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
Jhn 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Jhn 15:26 ¶ But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
Jhn 15:27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.
Jhn 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Jhn 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you.
Jhn 16:15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you.
No one is worshiping GOD the other is worshiping a BOOK. The early Christians had no books and no need of a reading and singing club. They got together to WORSHIP.
By denying RC history?
The "book" is His Word.
Christ never mentions a BOOK he never mentions a literacy requirement, he never mentions needing to get together and READ only to WORSHIP and in remberance of him partake in the EUCHARIST and confess sins to one another.
Protestantism divorced from worship and centered around earthly things, not suprising since it was created by angry individuals of quoestionable metnal capacity.
there’s no such thing as ‘RC History’ there’s plenty of documents found and continue to BE found that testify to precisly what happened in the councils.
there is REAL History backed up by archeological evidence such as documents, buildings, graves, ancient records, and letters, etc.
then there’s idol worship which denies REAL History and substitutes that of a ‘cult of personality’.
Scripture is never mentioned in the Bible? Your emotion is trashing your lucidity.
The New Testament WASN’T EVEN WRITTEN DOWN, we are told btw exactly how Timothy learned the Old Scripture! Word of mouth from his mother and grandmother.
You’re love for reading clubs is being interjected onto a faith which requires no such thing.
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