Southern Baptist leader counters Vatican edict

MSNBC ^ | July 19, 2007

[Between the Lines]

LOUISVILLE, Ky. - Instead of taking offense at a recent Vatican statement reasserting the primacy of the Roman Catholic Church, evangelicals should seize the chance to respond with equal candor that “any church defined by the claims of the papacy is no true church,” according to a prominent Southern Baptist leader.

The Rev. R. Albert Mohler Jr., president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, wrote on his blog that he appreciated the document’s clarity in voicing a key distinction between Catholics and Protestants over papal authority.

He said those differences are often forgotten “in this era of confusion and theological laxity.”

“We should together realize and admit that this is an issue worthy of division,” Mohler wrote.

“The Roman Catholic Church is willing to go so far as to assert that any church that denies the papacy is no true church. Evangelicals should be equally candid in asserting that any church defined by the claims of the papacy is no true church.

“This is not a theological game for children, it is the honest recognition of the importance of the question.”

This month, the Vatican released a document restating the contention that the Roman Catholicism is the one, true path to salvation. Other Christian communities are either defective or not true churches, the document said, restating the views of a 2000 document.

The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which Pope Benedict XVI headed before becoming pope, said it issued the new document because some contemporary theological interpretations of the Second Vatican Council’s ecumenical intent had been “erroneous or ambiguous” and had prompted confusion and doubt.

[tiki]

Very good reply.

I think the anonymity of the internet can make people act atrociously sometimes.

[xzins]

Not so.

I have a broader view of the Church visible. It includes all those groups that make up the body of true believers in Jesus Christ. You might have noticed different churches being addressed in the New Testament in different letters.

[kawaii]

yea well some folks have a broader view on immigration to, like legal AND illegal. i think that’s bs too.

[xzins]

So...which true believer in Jesus Christ do you think should be excluded?

[kawaii]

You might have noticed different churches being addressed in the New Testament in different letters.

they were different PARISHES, there was no doctrinal difference at that time.

now granted i can see protestants expecting different doctrines at every parish they attend...

[xzins]

Of course there were doctrinal differences. And they were called churches....not parishes.

(I am of Cephas...I of Paul..I of Apollos.....)

[Running On Empty]

Yes, do understand what you are saying.

I’m grateful for the Catholics who come on board and speak for me in ways that I know I’m not capable of doing. I have no letters after my name and no degrees. But I have my lot with the saints that have gone before me, many of whom had no credits after their name, either.

I rejoice in seeing Catholicism defended—if by offense, then so be it. :-)

I always enjoy read your posts-—though I admit to skipping over a lot of the others.

More later.

Psalm 18:20

[GoLightly]

‘written into minds’ is an allusion to christ sending the holy spirit, and it is not something given to all only those with the Holy Spirit ; the CHURCH.

You're right & I agree. Where we probably differ is in what we recognize as the CHURCH.

Back to the point at hand, the Levitical priesthood & the need for a like Christian priesthood... Continuing in Hebrews 10: 17 And their sins and iniquities I will remember no more. 18 Now where there is a remission of these, there is no more an oblation for sin. 19 Having therefore, brethren, a confidence in the entering into the holies by the blood of Christ; 20 A new and living way which he hath dedicated for us through the veil, that is to say, his flesh,

[GoLightly]

there’s probably as many maronites (now catholics) as oriental orthodox in michigan, probably more per capita really. given what the turks tried it’s a surprise there’s many armenians left at all.

True, true.

generally speaking though they too don’t really buy the ex cathedra...

Since they didn't stay with the Church through all of the first seven Councils, there's no doubt in my mind that they don't buy into ex cathedra.

[Running On Empty]

Thanks, tiki.

I agree—and anonymity seems to generate an attitude of immunity from accountability.

All those -—”itys” get in the way, dont’ they? :-)

[GoLightly]

It's sad. You all haul out the "All scripture is inspired ...," and it's not all that bad an argument. On its face it MIGHT be true. But to take it as PROOF of sola scriptura" requires a magisterial function to provide an authoritative interpretation of an ambiguous text. But you are interpreting the text to deny the propriety or need for a magisterial function. You fall into the hole you dig, logically speaking, or so it appears. The words spoken to Apostles was (as you put it) handed on in many ways, and you can show no dispositive proof that they was all condensed into Scripture. You simultaneously demonstrate the need for a magisterial function and the chaos and illogic which arises from the lack of one, while you also argue against both the need and the meeting of the need.

Your logic is flawless, but I ask myself if the Holy Spirit has limitations, is incapable of bringing the teachings of & about Jesus to us without any magistracy. I'm not asking if He used a magistracy, because He clearly did. When I ask whether or not He could have done it without a magistracy, I have to say, yes. The Peshitta has managed to survive with a separated magistracy.

[kawaii]

name a doctrinal difference that was not resolved by a council.

there’s only one source interested in saying the apostolic churches were divided on doctrine.

[kawaii]

methinks your minimizing a where there is a remission

[kawaii]

magistery isn’t what is being contested actual faith is what’s being contested and is someone is baptized but actually DOES NOT beleive the TRUE FAITH then what is it they believe and what sort of spirit might come upon that?

[xzins]

We were talking about the New Testament churches.

That would begin at about Acts and run through about Revelation.

Letters addressed to many churches. And doctrinal differences were already evident. So were different emphases.

See this article I just posted:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1870079/posts

[kawaii]

and they were all resolved by the apostles, those who refused to accept the apostles word were outside the church... methinks we see a pattern no?

[xzins]

Apparently not. See Letters to 7 Churches in Rev 2-3.

[hocndoc]

Romans 2:15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them

[GoLightly]

methinks your minimizing a where there is a remission

I would hardly call the Crucifixion a small thing.

[Alamo-Girl]

I would very much like to see your vision actualized, dear Running on Empty!

But much of the time, at least to me, both religious and political debate seems like a "game" being played. The players seem to be more concerned about scoring points, doing victory laps to the roar of the crowd and all that.

In the same breath, I do not think the players take themselves that seriously. Certainly not Christians no matter whatever label they wear.

Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This [is] the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts. - Zech 4:6

Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. - I John 4:4

Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? [shall] tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:35-39