Who Gets to Define "Christian"?

Beliefnet.com ^ | Thursday June 28, 2007 | By Orson Scott Card

[Elsie]

Then surely YOU must 'know' that these things you post are done by the the world.

 

The PASSOVER LAMB of God predates all of this stuff.

 

The only thing Christians 'worship' at 'Easter' is the FACT of Jesus' resurrection.

 

 

 

Acts 1:21-22
 21.  Therefore it is necessary to choose one of the men who have been with us the whole time the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
 22.  beginning from John's baptism to the time when Jesus was taken up from us. For one of these must become a witness with us of his resurrection."

 

Acts 2:31
  Seeing what was ahead, he spoke of the resurrection of the Christ,  that he was not abandoned to the grave, nor did his body see decay.

 

Acts 4:2
   They were greatly disturbed because the apostles were teaching the people and proclaiming in Jesus the resurrection of the dead.

 

Acts 4:33
   With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and much grace was upon them all.

 

Acts 17:18
   A group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to dispute with him. Some of them asked, "What is this babbler trying to say?" Others remarked, "He seems to be advocating foreign gods." They said this because Paul was preaching the good news about Jesus and the resurrection.

 

Acts 17:32
  When they heard about the resurrection of the dead, some of them sneered, but others said, "We want to hear you again on this subject."

 

Acts 23:6-8
 6.  Then Paul, knowing that some of them were Sadducees and the others Pharisees, called out in the Sanhedrin, "My brothers, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee. I stand on trial because of my hope in the resurrection of the dead."
 7.  When he said this, a dispute broke out between the Pharisees and the Sadducees, and the assembly was divided.
 8.  (The Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, and that there are neither angels nor spirits, but the Pharisees acknowledge them all.)

 

Acts 24:14-15
 14.  However, I admit that I worship the God of our fathers as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that agrees with the Law and that is written in the Prophets,
 15.  and I have the same hope in God as these men, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. 

 

Romans 6:5
   If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection.

 

1 Corinthians 15:1-22
 1.  Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand.
 2.  By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
 3.  For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance : that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
 4.  that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,
 5.  and that he appeared to Peter,  and then to the Twelve.
 6.  After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep.
 7.  Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles,
 8.  and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.
 9.  For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
 10.  But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them--yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me.
 11.  Whether, then, it was I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.
 12.  But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?
 13.  If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised.
 14.  And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith.
 15.  More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised.
 16.  For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either.
 17.  And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.
 18.  Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost.
 19.  If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men.
 20.  But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
 21.  For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man.
 22.  For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

[Elsie]

Mat 17:5 While he [Peter] yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

Ans so your point is?

Seems that Peter is talking to Jesus, then God steps in and speaks to Peter. So the others hear, too?

 

 

Your eagle eyes must be getting weak!

  THEM, the Voice spoke to THEM.

[unspun]

...and He came back several times to speak to His Apostles and later came back again to reveal Himself to Paul. That's just the account of the New Testament. You are obviously infected by the creeds of men who wish to put a termination on God's dealings with His children and say so far has God revealed and no more. Where did He say so? Nowhere. I rejoice that He continues to reveal His will to the children of men through direct revelation and through His servants the prophets.

Speaking from Heaven is not coming back, DL.

Neither creeds nor apparent revelation will contradict the Logos of God made flesh and His completed work, unless they are false.

The testimony of Scripture is solid about this and the test of false spirits is whether or not they are consistent with this Rock. (I John)

I believe in prophetic gifts. God continues to reveal truth to us. But unlike the leaders of the LDS, who have changed their "truth" to protect themselves, from one season to the next, God is consistent and has integrity.

I don't say these things to antagonize, but to shed light.

[Eagle Eye]

I said he spoke to Peter.

You say I am wrong, he spoke to all.

I won’t disagree the he spoke to all, but in doing so, he spoke to Peter.

Your posts exemplify quibbling over nothing to no profit.

Your points are dull, dim witted, and mostly useless at best.

As I said very early on, you are not very good at this.

The point on this was, since you missed it, that God Almighty Himself declares in an audible voice that Jesus Christ is his (God’s) son.

That is right, Jesus is the SON OF GOD, not god the son.

[MHGinTN]

You might want to take a look at #289 above. I found it most instructive when I went to the Greek. The Young's Literal translation is also instructive:

Young's Literal Translation John 20:17 Jesus saith to her, `Be not touching me, for I have not yet ascended unto my Father; and be going on to my brethren, and say to them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and to your God.`

The agreement between the Greek verbs conveys the meaning that Jesus was telling Mary Magdalene to not focus on keeping Him with her but to get back to the disciples and tell them He is going to ascend to God and will meet with them before going. The verb agreements give a connection, as in 'don't do this, do this instead'.

[MHGinTN]

BTW, I referred to the Alexandrian greek offering.

[Elsie]

Your points are dull, dim witted, and mostly useless at best.

I'll study your style and maybe I'll get better.

But in the mean time, they keep you from running the streets and getting in real trouble.

Your posts exemplify quibbling over nothing to no profit.

Ok...

[papagall]

This offering from you is a bit of specious hyperbole: "So there you have it according to the mental gymnast. That is why all the others had actually “seen” Christ ON EARTH after his resurrection, but Paul had only actually “seen” Chirst FROM HEAVEN." Before His Ascension, very many did see Him and even touch Him. After His resurrection, to 'see' Him was identified as a heavenly vision, as Paul clearly stated too. Did you miss that part about 'heavenly vision', verse 19, Acts Chapter 26, I think.

Is there some strategy to try and confuse scriptures? Clearly Jesus was with --on Earth-- those who saw Him prior to His Ascension. But even Paul/Saul stated that his 'seeing Him' was a heavenly vision, and Sual never claimed to touch or be touched by Jesus on the Damascus Road. Why are you Mormon folks trying to confuse this issue? Is there some Mormon strategy I should be told about here, for code purposes?

[papagall]

You could read it as ‘be not touching me and be going on (immediately, is the verb meaning) to my brethren’.

[Some Fat Guy in L.A.]

What if we define “Christians” the way most people would: “Believers in the divinity of Christ and in the necessity of the grace of Christ in order to be saved in the Kingdom of God.”

Or, “People who believe Christ is the Son of God and the only way to please God is by following Christ’s teachings as best you can all your life.”

Or how about, “People who believe that the New Testament is scripture and that its account of the life, death, resurrection, and teachings of Jesus is true and that we should act accordingly.”

___________________________________________________________

None of these cuts it. The definition as taught in my Southern Baptist church is: Anyone who has realized that they are a sinner, and that they are in need of a Savior, can become a Christian simply by believing that Jesus is that Savior, and by confessing Jesus as their Savior and Lord.

“Believing” on its own isn’t enough. You have to act on that belief by turning your life over to Jesus.

Anyone, regardless of church or denominational membership, who has done this is a Christian. Anyone who has not, is not.

All other arguments are null and void. There are lots of people who like to fight and are good at it who are nonetheless not in the army - only those who have committed to the commander are in the army. Likewise, only those who are committed to the Commander are in the Church.

[N3WBI3]

There are some core believes that 99.99% of Christian Churches think among them are:

The Nature of God
(Eternal for all time as God existed outside of time)
The Nature of the Trinity
Just, Holy, and Righteous

I can disagree with a Catholic about whether or not Mary ever had sexual relations with her husband (as the book of Matthew seems to indicate) but if he or I am right that is not enough to make the other non Chritian.

Im assuming your pressing about the Mormons who are *not* Christians as they get the very nature of God wrong. God was once a Man (a Mormon man of course) and Jesus is his Spirit Child (as was Lucifer). If you’re a good enough Mormon man you too will be a God over a planet some day and if you’re a good enough Mormon woman you will be one of his Goddesses having siprit babies to populate that planet.

Mormons are nice people and I would not refrain from voting for one just on the basis of faith but they are *not* Christian.

[N3WBI3]

"But let’s remember now why we are having this discussion. It’s because Mitt Romney is running for President of the United States, and Mitt Romney is a Mormon."

BTW if youll vote for a spineless panderer because you share his faith your pretty badly off..

[greyfoxx39]

Magic decoder ring and Flying Inman Posse placemark

[MHGinTN]

But that wouldn’t fit the preconceived screed the poster wants to post. This thread has stretched my Christian patience too far. Time to leave Mormonism to its heresies for the time being. There does seem to be an agenda or Mormonism strategy at work here. Appreciate your input.

[N3WBI3]

Was God, in your opinion a Mormon Man? Has he always existed through time is he the “I AM” to every Atom of matter and measure of energy in the Universe?

[N3WBI3]

Yes..

[N3WBI3]

How can someone who did not exist before time be the Alpha?

[N3WBI3]

Ahh so its wrong to say someone is not a Christian but its ok to say someone is not a Mormon..

[Eagle Eye]

How’s this:

If ya ain’t born again (saved) ya ain’t a Christian.

Pretty simple definition.

How to?

Romans 10:9,10

[N3WBI3]

But that demands clarification:

Jesus expands on this to Nicodemus:

Jhn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Jhn 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Jhn 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

So Christ is telling us to enter the Kingdom of God we must be baptized in the Spirit does this not mean a proper understanding of Christ (The Word), the Spirit, and God (The Father) need to be consistent.