Posted on 07/13/2007 7:28:01 PM PDT by restornu
AHhh... data from the BoA, without which we would NEVER had known Ham's wife's name!
Yeah, and they believe that any of those OTHER 'Mormon' churchs aren't even Mormon; either!
Why, that RLDS group even dropped "Jesus Christ" out of their name!
Arguing with Mormons is a bad idea. It gives them the false sense that they are almost Christians.
You really are not very good at this.
Logic: If the Bible says that God is not a man and if the Bible also says that Jesus is/was a man, then Jesus cannot be God.
If God cannot die, and Jesus died, then Jesus cannot be God.
If no man has seen God at any time, and many saw Jesus, then Jesus cannot be God.
If God cannot be tempted with evil, and Jesus was tempted in all ways, then Jesus cannot be God.
And you still did not find the word “trinity” in the Bible, and I don’t give a hoot if the word Mormon is in there or not. I also don’t recall seeing the word Baptist, Catholic, Adventist, or Republican. So what?
Trinity = 3. Three. Uno, dos, tres. Three is not one. (Remember Logic 101?)
If something is one, then it cannot be three.
If you have God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit you have...let’s count’em...one, two, three Gods!
The Father is not the son and the son is not the Father. To say they are the same and identical is a contradition of spripture. (no, you go find it!)
You aren’t even a challenge on this. And yes, I repeat myself a lot because y’all don’t respond, y’all just ask ignore the facts and ask new questions.
Do some research. Everyone else on here seems to know that Easter is rooted in fertilty woship, hence rabbits, eggs, and your beloved phallic symbol on top of your church.
Jesus was given a lot of authority from God, his father.
Jesus forgave sins on behalf of God.
The religious leaders did not understand his ability to do so and jumped on the opportunity to charge him with blasphemy for doing what they thought only God could do.
And you are no different, you don’t understand how in those very verses Jesus said that he was sent by the Father to accomplish the Father’s works.
(Remember some logic? If Jesus is God, and if God is the Father of Jesus, then God is his own son and own Father, and therefore sent himself on behalf of himself to do his own mission.)
Remember, no man has seen God at any time, so these Pharisees had to be talking to the invisible man if Jesus was God.
I’m all for bringing logic into this discussion!
Just remember, logically speaking, one must interpret difficult scripture in light of clear scripture, not vice versa.
Yeah, that is one of the very first rules of Biblical study and interpretation and that very rule sinks almost all yourships.
Jesus died. Did God die?
God told Peter that Jesus was His son and to listen to him...you say Jesus is God....I’ll go with what God says in clear verse.
You aren’t even a challenge on this.
I know: I should just slink away...
Uh... I think that YOU where the one who made the assertion; back up your OWN facts and quit appealing to the CROWD that seems to know everything.
And yes, I repeat myself a lot because y’all don’t respond, y’all just ask ignore the facts and ask new questions.
Just remember, logically speaking, one must interpret difficult scripture in light of clear scripture, not vice versa.
You really need to make up your mind...
God told Peter that Jesus was His son and to listen to him...you say Jesus is God....I’ll go with what God says in clear verse.
Clearly, God spoke to ALL of them.
Mark 9
1. And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.
2. And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.
3. And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them.
4. And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.
5. And Peter answered and said to Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
6. For he wist not what to say; for they were sore afraid.
7. And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.
8. And suddenly, when they had looked round about, they saw no man any more, save Jesus only with themselves.
6 ¶ And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.We believe that Christ is the express image of His Father, God the Father. (Read about that in Genesis 1:26,27 and Gen. 5:1-3.) After Christ's resurrection, Matthew 27:52-53 teaches that many graves were open and many of the saints who slept arose, went into the Holy City, and appeared unto many.37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,In Phillipians, Paul says that our bodies will change and be resurrected, like Jesus Christ was resurrected. In Phillipians 3:20-21:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:And I am now trying to quote from the Bible and the Book of Mormon, so from Alma 11:42-45:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
42 Now, there is a death which is called a temporal death; and the death of Christ shall loose the bands of this temporal death, that all shall be raised from this temporal death.In John 5:29, it does say "resurrection of the damned." Our beliefs say that the damned are those Sons of Perdition who will be cast out from God's presence and live in Outer Darkness. Some will have bodies, some will not. And those who have bodies will reign over those who do not. (Satan does not have a body, but Cain will, so he will reign over Satan.)43 The spirit and the body shall be reunited again in its perfect form; both limb and joint shall be restored to its proper frame, even as we now are at this time; and we shall be brought to stand before God, knowing even as we know now, and have a bright recollection of all our guilt.
44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but every thing shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.
45 Now, behold, I have spoken unto you concerning the death of the mortal body, and also concerning the resurrection of the mortal body. I say unto you that this mortal body is raised to an immortal body, that is from death, even from the first death unto life, that they can die no more; their spirits uniting with their bodies, never to be divided; thus the whole becoming spiritual and immortal, that they can no more see corruption.
Sorry to disappoint you, but I'm not confused about the resurrection of damnation. It's those Sons of Perdition who knew God and knowingly turned away from Him and worked actively against him. (Cain is a good example.) Also in LDS beliefs, 1/3 the host of heaven went with Lucifer, and they will also dwell in Outer Darkness. This is an excellent description of our beliefs Hell in Christian Beliefs: Latter-Day Saints (Mormons)
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches that the word hell is used in scripture in at least two senses.And you can use both the words 'endless' and 'eternal' to mean punishment or reward. We believe in eternal progression.First, Mormons believe in a concept of hell as a temporary state of punishment. They believe that those who refuse to accept Jesus will suffer in hell for their sins for 1000 years during the millennial reign of Christ. Righteous people, whether Latter-day Saint or not, will be resurrected and live with Christ on earth.[7] After the 1000 years, the individuals in hell will also be resurrected and receive an immortal physical body.[8] The LDS Church explains biblical descriptions of hell being "eternal" or "endless" punishment as being descriptive of their infliction by God rather than a unending temporal period; Latter-day Saint scripture quotes God as telling church founder Joseph Smith, Jr.: "I am endless, and the punishment which is given from my hand is endless punishment, for Endless is my name. Wherefore—Eternal punishment is God’s punishment. Endless punishment is God’s punishment."[9] It is in this sense of the word "hell" that David prayed to the Lord, "thou wilt not leave my soul in hell".[10]
Latter-day Saints also believe in a more permanent concept of hell, commonly referred to as outer darkness. It is said that very few people who have lived on the earth will be consigned to this hell, but Latter-day Saint scripture suggests that at least Cain will be present.[11] Other mortals who during their lifetime become sons of perdition—those who commit the unpardonable sin—will be consigned to outer darkness.[12] It is taught that the unpardonable sin is committed by those who "den[y] the Son after the Father has revealed him".[13] However, the vast majority of residents of outer darkness will be the "devil and his angels ... the third part of the hosts of heaven" who in the pre-existence followed Lucifer and never received a mortal body.[14] The residents of outer darkness are the only children of God that will not receive one of three kingdoms of glory at the Last Judgment.
It is unclear in the teachings of Mormonism whether the temporary hell during the millennium and outer darkness are physical places or if both are merely descriptions of personal states of suffering and torment. It is also unclear whether those in outer darkness will ultimately be redeemed; of outer darkness and the sons of perdition, Latter-day Saint scripture states that "the end thereof, neither the place thereof, nor their torment, no man knows; Neither was it revealed, neither is, neither will be revealed unto man, except to them who are made partakers thereof".
James 2:24 & 26 says:
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.I know I have seen several comments on other threads that we Mormons believe we are buying our salvation with our good works. That is not our belief. We believe, as Jesus taught, in Matthew 25:4026 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.And I do believe in Jesus Christ, and that by doing so, I am born again. I can lay my burdens upon Him and become a new creature in Christ. I must have a broken heart and a contrite spirit and strive to live his commandments because I have changed. And I must repent of my sins in order to take advantage of the Atonement.
I read a really good analogy of grace the other day, saying that I will take advantage of Christ's Atonement when I am perfect someday is like saying I will take that medicine when I get better.
Stephen Robinson has written a couple of books that really explained the concept to me. They are titled "Believing Christ", which means believing Christ's words, not just believing in Christ. We need to believe His words, His Atonement, and His sacrifice for us, and that His is the only way to salvation.
Don’t all churches say they’re the only true church?
Even a bag of hammers knows that Easter includes paganism!
The Pagan Origins of Easter By Royce Carlson Easter celebrations were held hundreds of years before Christ was born as festivals of spring honoring Eostre, the great mother goddess of the Saxons. This name was fashioned after the ancient word for spring, Eastre. The goddess Ostara was the Norse equivalent whose symbols were the hare and the egg. From this comes our modern tradition of celebrating Easter with eggs and bunnies. In the Mediterranean region, there was a pre-Christian spring celebration centered around the vernal equinox (March 20 or 21) that honored Cybele, the Phrygian goddess of fertility. Cybele’s consort, Attis, was considered born of a virgin and was believed to have died and been resurrected three days later. Attis derived his mythology from even earlier gods, Osiris, Dionysus, and Orpheus, who also were supposed to have been born of a virgin and suffered death and resurrection as long as 500 years before Christ was born. The death of Attis was commemorated on a Friday and the resurrection was celebrated three days later on Sunday. There are other Easter traditions that are pagan in origin. The Easter sunrise service is derived from the ancient pagan practice of welcoming the sun on the morning of the spring equinox, marking the beginning of spring. What we now call Easter lilies were revered by the ancients as symbols of fertility and representative of the male genitalia. The ancient Babylonian religions had rituals involving dyed eggs as did the ancient Egyptians.
http://www.zenzibar.com/Articles/easter.asp
Ans so your point is?
Seems that Peter is talking to Jesus, then God steps in and speaks to Peter. So the others hear, too?
My point is that God told Peter that Jesus was his [God's] son and you still insist that Jesus is God.
Boy, you got some guts to argue with God like that! LOL...
...and He came back several times to speak to His Apostles and later came back again to reveal Himself to Paul. That's just the account of the New Testament. You are obviously infected by the creeds of men who wish to put a termination on God's dealings with His children and say so far has God revealed and no more. Where did He say so? Nowhere. I rejoice that He continues to reveal His will to the children of men through direct revelation and through His servants the prophets.
Wrong. He appeared to them before ascending.
"... later came back again to reveal Himself to Paul."
Wrong. He spoke to St. Paul from Heaven.
He appeared to Mary before ascending... John 20:17
" Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
First it is clear in this direct statement that Jesus ascended to Father at that time. Furthermore, when He later appeared to the bretheren on multiple occassions, He asked them to touch Him and to handle Him. He would not have done so had He not yet ascended, as illustrated in His exchange with Mary. Once again you've demonstrated a bumper sticker understanding of the scriptures. Do you not read the scriptures for yourself?
Acts 26
15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.
16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
I said Jesus "appeared" to Paul and that is what the scriptures say
Why another lame, pointless, groundless, ignorant rebuttle? How about you take a week to read and understand the Bible before continuing to claim to be an authority?
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