Posted on 07/10/2007 8:10:26 AM PDT by topcat54
PRAYERS WE COME TOGETHER!
Beautiful post!
I doubt that you and I would agree on what Christians "coming together" would look like, but I also know that if this were the true desire of ALL Christians that He would show us that it is also His Will.
I've been refraining from religious "debates" on FR for several months and I can honestly say that I have come to see more wisdom from both the Catholics/Orthodox and Protestants.
My experience has been this is only done when things aren't going their way. History reveals a different character when they wield the power of the state.
I assume you mean that LCMS is viewed that way by the reformed churches. With all the denominations out there, you can see why non-Lutherans would expect other non-LCMS Lutheran denominations to be similarly conservative in their doctrine, but boy is that wrong. Although I stick closely to the LCMS doctrine, I also prefer to try to find the similarities and commonalities that bind Christians together with us, and not for those things that separate us. Perhaps that comes from spending so much time overseas where I was the “outsider” and where I felt Christians need to stick together for strength. Here in the US we live in sort of a cocoon of religious freedom and diversity, which allows us the “luxury” of nitpicking. If history teaches us anything, it is that the Christian Church has usually grown stronger through persecution and weakened/apostatized during times of plenty. With what I see going on with radical Islam in Europe, for example, I wonder whether Christianity is going to be tested severely again. I don’t know if Europe is up to the task however...are we? (different topic).
Why wouldn't Jesus' sacrifice at Calvary be sufficient?
I would never say that Catholics do not have salvation.
Yep, very ominous. As history and geography illustrate, fascism seems to follow in its footsteps.
But that false notion is the antithesis of Scripture which tells us Christ already has provided the only "purification" any sinner requires.
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved." -- Ephesians 1:3-6 "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
"For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified." -- Hebrews 10:14
"She is not afraid of the snow for her household: for all her household are clothed with scarlet." -- Proverbs 31:21
The Early Church Fathers on The Church (Catholic Caucus)
Early Church Fathers on (Oral) Tradition - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on Apostolic Succession - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on Purgatory - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on Salvation Outside the Church [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]
The Early Church Fathers on Mary’s Perpetual Virginity - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on The Primacy of Peter/Rome (Catholic/Orthodox Caucus)
The Early Church Fathers on Hell - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on Intercession of the Saints - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on The Real Presence - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on Confession / Reconciliation - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on the Immaculate Conception - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on Justification - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on Contraception - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on Baptism - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on The Mother of God - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
>>So you must of made some one really mad to get booted!<<
Sorry it took so long to get back to you. My girls had to go to Polish Dance practice.
I got tossed in the “Great traditional inquisition” They started a Traditional Catholic forum then allowed everyone to take pot shots at us. Unlike the “Eastern Christianity” forum where one did not have to offend one’s beliefs, we felt like we were fish in a barrel. We were right, a whole ton of us were tossed after about two weeks of it.
I think I was tossed because they asked how the forum was doing and I told them. I said I would probably be tossed for stating my opinion. I was.
In the four years I was on, I had one infraction and never a suspension. I even missed the e-mail with my restrictions and was tossed before I realized. I put an “LOL” on another poster’s blog and I got the boot.
Don’t be a traditional Catholic and hang out there. If anyone thinks that the FReepers are bad, they should see the Libs on CAF!
>>Why wouldn’t Jesus’ sacrifice at Calvary be sufficient?<<
I’m not an apologist. I just live my faith.
Yikes!
....forum where one did not have to offend one’s beliefs...
Make that offend, defend.
I need a spellcheck in my brain.
Well then, what do you call it when people buy "mass cards" and such for the dead? I have a whole stack of these things from when my father died. Maybe I can sell them on eBay.
It's still a fundamentally 16th century denomination you are dealing with on these matters.
That’s not an indulgence, it’s a novena mass in honor of that person. It actually cost nothing in most places and in many more, it’s the price of the card. We are asked for a donation at my parish. It’s not a payment for a “get out of Jail free” card. It covers the cost of the card, the priest’s time, the light bill, the heat. In some places, like with Brothers, Holy Masses are said just for the intentions of others. You wouldn’t begrudge these fine men a bit to cover their expenses, would you? Geez, we give a waiter a tip, why not a Priest?
We have them for the living as well. I plan on having a Holy Mass said for my darling hubby for our anniversary this year.
I’m so sorry that you really detest us Papists so much. You seem like a very nice person who just needs a good Catholic to show you that we are not so evil. I’ll pray for you as I’m sure you will for me (although I won’t be praying for your conversion). And I trust you’ll be in Our Lord’s arms one day as well!
Didn't mean to be too pushy.
>>Didn’t mean to be too pushy.<<
Oh I don’t think you were pushy!
But really I’m not an apologist and I get lost quickly here. So many FReepers are much more knowledgable than I am.
Is the idea of purgatory that the blood sacrifice of Jesus was only good enough to get us through the first door and there are other things we need to do, such as go through purgatory?
The blood sacrifice of Jesus opened the door, but it is up to us to take up our crosses and follow him.
Many are called but few are chosen.
Some signs which indicate the importance of popular religious culture are: the increasing participation of people in pilgrimages to shrines (especially Marian shrines), the tradition in families of baptizing children, the giving of alms for the souls in Purgatory and celebrating Masses for the deceased, patronal feasts with their characteristic processions and the celebration of Holy Mass (generally attended by large numbers of people), devotion to the saints, not only those of the universal Church but also those of the American continent, etc..(26) These and many other expressions of popular piety offer excellent opportunities for the faithful to encounter the living Jesus Christ. In fact, the ecclesial community, in coming together for the celebration of the Word and Sacrament in memory of the saints, remembers in a particular way those who faithfully imitated in their lives the Savior of the world, and that same community enters into communion with those who are part of the heavenly Church. It is for this reason that popular piety--purified and duly catechized--may come to be a decisive element in the new evangelization. This is a point on which most of the answers to the Lineamenta agree."Giving alms" is a synonym for buying indulgences.Synod of Bishops: Encounter with the living Jesus Christ, 1997
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