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If those Israelites dispersed throughout the Assyrian Kingdom they would have been taken over by the Babylonians who in turn were taken over by the Persians. Over time, they would have been considered to be Jews as were those taken captive a hundred years later. Many probably returned to Palestine, or intermarried with the local populations, losing their Israelite identity over time.

The Israelites were not dispersed through the Assyrian kingdom. They were placed with other peoples at the norther border of Assyria to act as a buffer.

Their stay there was at least 200 years, 8 generations. Even with any attrition the bulk thereof returning to Palestine would have pushed the region way over its count of 500,000.

Where is there indication the the Babylonians conquered the Assyrians, and when did that happen?

"Many" returned to Palestine? Where did the rest go, if, as you say "many" returned to Palestine?

And where do you get the foundation for this supposition?

There are a lot of conceptual problems with your theory and logic problems as well as historical problems. And, you continue to have problems with the existence of Israel as Hosea 1:10-11 predicts.

It sound as though you want the present Jews to be the sum total of God's people.

Why?

Actually, God's Plan is laid out very clearly in Scripture.

Where?

And no one is claiming that it is only limite to the remnants of Judah.

Who else, then, specifically, in the numbers required by Hosea?

What we are claiming is that all people from all 12 tribes are present in the world and we call them Jews.

Not near enough of them. And they are diminishing with so many marrying nonJews.

There is no separate group called 'Israelites'.

That's your statement.

In 1Cor.10:32, Paul says give no offense to three different groups of people, Jews, Gentiles and Church. Had a 4th existed known as Israelites, he would have included them as well.

1Cor. 10:32 Give none offense, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

Of course, the vast portion of Israelites were comprehended in the "church of God", because they were of the church of God. Dig?

These were the people that Jesus sent the disciples to minister to. Remember your Bible?

Actually the Jews are jealous, of the salvation of the gentiles (Rom.11:11) and that jealously leads some to salvation.

That may have been those Jews. I'm talking about these Jews.

When the fullness of the Gentiles enters into salvation, then the church will be removed (rapture) and God will again start dealing with the Jew directly-all 12 tribes (Rev.7).

All 12 tribes would have to be here, wouldn't they. In numbers deserving of being called "the sands of the sea", right? Will they magically appear in those numbers then?

Please cite the specific wording of the scripture that lead you to the conclusion above.

Until then, the Jew is under the curse of Deut.28, being dispersed and dispised.

The Jews, that is, Judah, whose lineage gave us the Christ, and who refused to acknowledge Him. The other Israelites are not included.

But the Christian is suppose to protect him even though he is an enemy of the Gospel, he is still beloved for the father's sake (Rom.11:28)

You are correct. God will make good His promise to the Israelites. Hosea predicts it.

I have no idea what you are talking about in this paragraph.

I said, "I would think the Jews would, as a practical matter, be relieved, having so many brothers under the covenant to be with them in their travails. You seem to be happy to see them go it alone."

You deny that there are great numbers of Israelites in the world willing to stand by their brothers under the covenant. There are few Jews and their number are diminishing. Yet, you passionately argue for their isolation and among the worlds peoples.

I argue for there being a multitude of brothers to stand with them.

Well, no one is isolating Judah.

You are.

The Jew is everywhere, and is considered a Jew no matter what tribe.

There are a few in this country and a few in that, and has been historically so. And a number in Israel. Few in the world.

Now what does Jim Jone have to do with anything?

An example of a few nutjobs in every population. You really didn't understand my example?

British-Israelism is simply nonsense and so are your comments.

Well, sez you. If God's plan according to Hosea was to bring vast number of the children of Israel together with the children of Judah, there must first be vast numbers of the children of Israel. A very logical and simple way for God to realize His plan would be to disperse all His people into nations composed of His people, then at the Hosea point, reveal to them their identity.

Well, if you can't show that the tribes had migrated then the view is built on a very shakey foundation!

I did. It's very simple. Israel were given by God over to the Assyrians for their sins. The Assyrians put the mass of men women and children that was Israel on its norther border to as as a buffer. With Israel were other peoples in that position. After a couple hundred years Israel allied with those others managed to whip Assyria and get loose. They then in their mass of tribes moved north toward Turkey.

There are thousands of translated Assyrian tablets in the British museum. Some of the tablets clearly showed impressed drawing of Israelite priests. Where there are priests, there are men women and children. Some of those tablets were identified as coming from Assyrian outposts north of Assyria after the final conflict.

Sparse as this evidence is, it does establishes a presence and a vector. I think this is more than you have.

God did not break any promise with Israel.

If He wiped them out, He certainly did.

They are dispersed now but will be regathered and reunited into a Millennial Kingdom under the Lord Jesus Christ.

I agree. But "dispersed" may also mean composed of, which is the only way the numbers required can be there.

Today all Israelites are Jews and all Jews are Israelites.

You keep saying that, but with no evidence historical or logical.

I can only come tot he conclusion that this is what you want to believe.

[God did not break any promise with Israel.]

If He wiped them out, He certainly did.

No one is saying that the Israelites were wiped out.

We know that the members of the 'house of Israel' was present in Israel when Christ appeared.

It is you that is setting up a straw man by insisting that if the 10 tribes are not known as such they must have been wiped out.

The members of those tribes are still present and are known as Jews.

They will find out their tribe in the Millennial reign when the inheritance is handed out.

[ They are dispersed now but will be regathered and reunited into a Millennial Kingdom under the Lord Jesus Christ. ]

I agree. But "dispersed" may also mean composed of, which is the only way the numbers required can be there.

What required numbers?

God doesn't require numbers to get His Kingdom going.

There will be very few people left after the Tribulation but God will re-inhabit the earth very quickly.

You underestimate the power of God.

The Jews will have enough from each tribe to reestablish the kingdom and they will repopulate very quickly.

During the Millennial there will be perfect environment and no infant deaths.

[ Today all Israelites are Jews and all Jews are Israelites. ]

You keep saying that, but with no evidence historical or logical. I can only come tot he conclusion that this is what you want to believe.

And I can only come to the conclusion that you are locked into circular reasoning based on false assumptions.

You have no evidence of any Israelite migration anywhere.

We know all 12 tribes were in Israel during Christ's birth and death.

They are in that blood line (Abraham, Issac, Jacob) and today consider themselves as Jews, Israelites and Hebrews, as did Paul

Your logic is as flawed as your history and Bible knowledge.

International Standard Bible Encyclopedia 4. Last Period and Fall of the Empire:

His son Esar-haddon, who succeeded him (681-669 BC) after his murder by two other sons on the 20th Tebet (compare 2Ki 19:37), was as distinguished a general and administrator as his father had been the reverse. For his history see ESARHADDON .

Under him the Second Empire reached the acme of its power and prosperity. Babylon was rebuilt and made the second capital of the empire, Palestine became an obedient province, and Egypt was conquered (674 and 671 BC), while an invasion of the Cimmerians (Gomer) was repelled, and campaigns were made into the heart of both Media and Arabia. Esar-haddon died while on his way to repress a revolt in Egypt, and his son Assur-bani-pal succeeded him in the empire (669-626 BC), while another son Samas-sum-ukin was appointed viceroy of Babylonia.

Assur-bani-pal was a munificent patron of learning, and the library of Nineveh owed most of its treasures to him, but extravagant luxury had now invaded the court, and the king conducted his wars through his' generals, while he himself remained at home. The great palace at Kouyunjik (Nineveh) was built by him. Egypt demanded his first attention.

Tirhakah the Ethiopian who had headed its revolt was driven back to his own country, and for a time there was peace. Then under Tandamane, Tirhakah's successor, Egypt revolted again. This time the Assyrian punishment was merciless. Thebes--"No-amon" (Na 3:8)--was destroyed, its booty carried away and two obelisks transported to Nineveh as trophies of victory. Meanwhile Tyre, which had rebelled, was forced to sue for peace, and ambassadors arrived from Gyges of Lydia asking for help against the Cimmerians. Elam still remained independent and endeavored to stir up disaffection in Babylonia.

Against his will, therefore, Assur-bani-pal was obliged to interfere in the internal affairs of that country, with the result that the Elamites were finally overthrown in a battle on the Eulaeus beneath the walls of Susa, and the conquered land divided between two vassal kings.

Then suddenly a revolt broke out throughout the greater part of the Assyrian empire, headed by Assur-bani-pal's brother, the viceroy of Babylonia. For a time the issue was doubtful. Egypt recovered its independence under Psammetichus, the founder of the XXVIth Dynasty (660 BC) who had received help from Lydia, but Babylonia was reconquered and Babylon after a long siege was starved out, Samas-sum-ukin burning himself in the ruins of his palace. Elam remained to be dealt with, and an Assyrian army made its way to Susa, which was leveled to the ground, the shrines of its gods profaned and the bones of its ancient kings torn from their graves.

Then came the turn of northern Arabia, where the rebel sheikhs were compelled to submit. But the struggle had exhausted Assyria; its exchequer was empty, and its fighting population killed. When the Cimmerians descended upon the empire shortly afterward, it was no longer in a condition to resist them. Under Assur-etil-ilani, the son and successor of Assur-bani-pal, Calah was taken and sacked, and two reigns later, Sin-sar-iskun, the last king of Assyria, fell fighting against the Scythians (606 BC). Nineveh was utterly destroyed, never again to be inhabited, and northern Babylonia passed into the hands of Nabopolassar, the viceroy of Babylon, who had joined the northern invaders.(emphasis added) Assur, the old capital of the country, was still standing in the age of Cyrus, but it had become a small provincial town; as for Nineveh and Calah, their very sites were forgotten.

No wonder you are so confused!

You don't even know basic history!

The Book of Nahum (Scofield)

Nahum prophesied during the reign of Hezekiah, probably about one hundred and fifty years after Jonah. He has but one subject--the destruction of Nineveh. According to Diodorus Siculus, the city was destroyed nearly a century later, precisely as here predicted. The prophecy is one continuous strain which does not yield to analysis. The moral theme is: the holiness of Jehovah which must deal with sin in judgment.

JFB Commentary

Sargon, Shalmaneser's successor, after the reduction of PhSnicia by the latter, fearing lest Egypt should join Palestine against him, undertook an expedition to Africa (Isa 20:1-6), and took Thebes; the latter fact we know only from Nahum, but the success of the expedition in general is corroborated in Isa 20:1-6. Sennacherib, Sargon's successor, made the last Assyrian attempt against Judea, ending in the destruction of his army in the fourteenth year of Hezekiah (713-710 B.C.). As Nahum refers to this in part prophetically, in part as matter of history (Na 1:9-13; 2:13), he must have lived about 720-714 B.C., that is, almost a hundred years before the event foretold, namely, the overthrow of Nineveh by the joint forces of Cyaxares and Nabopolassar in the reign of Chyniladanus, 625 or 603 B.C.

The prophecy is remarkable for its unity of aim. Nahum's object was to inspire his countrymen, the Jews, with the assurance that, however alarming their position might seem, exposed to the attacks of the mighty Assyrian, who had already carried away the ten tribes, yet that not only should the Assyrian (Sennacherib) fail in his attack on Jerusalem, but Nineveh, his own capital, be taken and his empire overthrown; and this, not by an arbitrary exercise of Jehovah's power, but for the iniquities of the city and its people.

[If those Israelites dispersed throughout the Assyrian Kingdom they would have been taken over by the Babylonians who in turn were taken over by the Persians. Over time, they would have been considered to be Jews as were those taken captive a hundred years later. Many probably returned to Palestine, or intermarried with the local populations, losing their Israelite identity over time.]

The Israelites were not dispersed through the Assyrian kingdom. They were placed with other peoples at the norther border of Assyria to act as a buffer.

Well, they were placed with other peoples so they would lose their own national identity, which was the purpose of moving them.

Their stay there was at least 200 years, 8 generations. Even with any attrition the bulk thereof returning to Palestine would have pushed the region way over its count of 500,000.

You don't have any idea how many people were exiled.

You have no idea of their birth rate.

You have no idea of how many were intermarrying with the local people, as did many from the Southern tribes.

So, your numbers are all based on assumptions that have no factual basis.

Where is there indication the the Babylonians conquered the Assyrians, and when did that happen?

See my posts on this.

Amazing that you would not even know this as a fact!

"Many" returned to Palestine? Where did the rest go, if, as you say "many" returned to Palestine?

Probably stayed where they were an became part of the local population as did the Southern tribes when many did not go with Ezra and were in the Persian Kingdom during the days of Esther.

[In 1Cor.10:32, Paul says give no offense to three different groups of people, Jews, Gentiles and Church. Had a 4th existed known as Israelites, he would have included them as well.]

1Cor. 10:32 Give none offense, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God: Of course, the vast portion of Israelites were comprehended in the "church of God", because they were of the church of God. Dig?

No, the Church is composed of Jews and Gentiles.(Gal.3:28)

I do not see the Israelites mentioned, except as Jews.

So there is either Church ( saved Jew and Gentile-Gal.3:28), Gentiles (unsaved) and Jew (unsaved)-Dig?

You are correct. God will make good His promise to the Israelites. Hosea predicts it.

Yes, as a return to being a Kingdom.

Israel doesn't exist separate from Jews today, they are all one people.

You deny that there are great numbers of Israelites in the world willing to stand by their brothers under the covenant. There are few Jews and their number are diminishing. Yet, you passionately argue for their isolation and among the worlds peoples. I argue for there being a multitude of brothers to stand with them.

The Israelites are the Jews and vice a versa.

What I argue is for the Gentiles to stand by the Jew and not pretend that he is something he isn't, an Israelite!

That is that the nations will be judged on after the Tribulation at the Judgement of the nations, sheep or goats (Mat.25)on how they treated Christ's brethren the Jews/Israelite/Hebrew.

Not near enough of them. And they are diminishing with so many marrying nonJews.

Not in Israel they aren't.

What is declining are the number of Jews of the Dispora, since they are returning to Israel.

[Well, if you can't show that the tribes had migrated then the view is built on a very shakey foundation! ]

I did. It's very simple. Israel were given by God over to the Assyrians for their sins. The Assyrians put the mass of men women and children that was Israel on its norther border to as as a buffer. With Israel were other peoples in that position. After a couple hundred years Israel allied with those others managed to whip Assyria and get loose. They then in their mass of tribes moved north toward Turkey.

LOL!

Talk about fantasy history!

There are thousands of translated Assyrian tablets in the British museum. Some of the tablets clearly showed impressed drawing of Israelite priests. Where there are priests, there are men women and children. Some of those tablets were identified as coming from Assyrian outposts north of Assyria after the final conflict. Sparse as this evidence is, it does establishes a presence and a vector. I think this is more than you have.

No, I have actual factorial history that Assyria was conquered by a confederation of nations, headed by Babylon.

No 10 tribes got together and 'whipped' Assyria.

As for those tablets, the Assyrians sent in a priest to teach the people that had replaced them the Jewish customs since lions were killing them (2Ki.17:26-28)

I trust this ends our conversation.

Your theory is built on a foundation of conjecture, assumptions and faulty theology.