[fortheDeclaration]

[And you take that as some historical evidence that the Israelites are the Royal families of Britain!]

I have no idea. I would doubt it because Judah was in Palestine, not in Europe, and Judah held the royal line.

good.

There are scratch drawings of figures dressed in Israelite priestly garb on Assyrian tablets from Assyrian outposts between Assyria and Turkey as it was at that time. Israel, after God allowed them to be taken by the Assyrians, was put with other people on the northern border of Assyria as a buffer. As I said in my prior post, you have population problems saying they merged with Judah in Palestine, or were completely wiped out.

Why is that?

If those Israelites dispersed throughout the Assyrian Kingdom they would have been taken over by the Babylonians who in turn were taken over by the Persians.

Over time, they would have been considered to be Jews as were those taken captive a hundred years later.

Many probably returned to Palestine, or intermarried with the local populations, losing their Israelite identity over time.

I have fought this battle years ago on many threads. This is a highly emotional topic, as evidenced by your approach.

[ British Israelism is simply nonsense and an attempt put the British/Americans as the center of God's Plan, being blessed as Israel, instead of simply acknowledging the fact they are blessed as Gentiles because they blessed Israel. ]

That's your problem? You want God's plan to be limited to the remnants of Judah? Why? Maybe God's plan is to include the mass of Earth's population. Why would that bother you? Are you privy to God's plan?

Actually, God's Plan is laid out very clearly in Scripture.

And no one is claiming that it is only limite to the remnants of Judah.

What we are claiming is that all people from all 12 tribes are present in the world and we call them Jews.

There is no separate group called 'Israelites'.

In 1Cor.10:32, Paul says give no offense to three different groups of people, Jews, Gentiles and Church.

Had a 4th existed known as Israelites, he would have included them as well. >

The other 10 tribes are considered to be Jews, as is made clear by Paul's statement.

Of course, I can see the jealousy of the Jews toward that notion, having God's protection, and now having to share it with a great multitude. But what's your problem with it? Are you Jewish?

Actually the Jews are jealous, of the salvation of the gentiles (Rom.11:11) and that jealously leads some to salvation.

When the fullness of the Gentiles enters into salvation, then the church will be removed (rapture) and God will again start dealing with the Jew directly-all 12 tribes (Rev.7).

Until then, the Jew is under the curse of Deut.28, being dispersed and dispised.

But the Christian is suppose to protect him even though he is an enemy of the Gospel, he is still beloved for the father's sake (Rom.11:28)

I would think the Jews would, as a practical matter, be relieved, having so many brothers under the convenant to be with them in their travails. You seem to be happy to see them go it alone.

I have no idea what you are talking about in this paragraph.

[ Now, I have made it clear that just because one believed in British-Israelism that made them anti-sematic, only that there were variants in it that were and it seemed to lead its adherents to Legalism instead of the Gospel of Grace. ]

I'm sorry. I can't get the sense of this paragraph. Believing that brothers under the covenant are in Europe and all over the world in vast numbers is antisemitic? I would think wanting to isolate Judah would be antisemitic.

Well, no one is isolating Judah.

The Jew is everywhere, and is considered a Jew no matter what tribe.

You seem to be very confused on the issue.

[ You are right to a certain extent. There appear to be radical factions in the groups that believe that Israel is spread worldwide. Those in that faction seem to just hate Jews, so they want to replace them as impostors. ]

Yes, so? Nut factions are in every group everywhere. Remember Jim Jones?

Now what does Jim Jone have to do with anything?

British-Israelism is simply nonsense and so are your comments.

[ Now, I could provide you with links to anti-British-Israelite writings that explain the historical and Biblical fallacies of it if you would like. ]

Thank you, but I've probably read it all in 2001 and refuted most of it with simple logic and Bible prophecy. The effort was to prove the tribes did not go some place. Very hard to prove a negative.

Well, if you can't show that the tribes had migrated then the view is built on a very shakey foundation!

At this point in history, only God knows. For us it is what we want to believe. Why do you want to believe that the Jews are cursed with isolation, and the remnants of Judah are all alone to face the world, and God broke his promise to Israel? You make no sense, seemingly supporting the Jews and being against their practical protection and safety in numbers at the same time.

God did not break any promise with Israel.

They are dispersed now but will be regathered and reunited into a Millennial Kingdom under the Lord Jesus Christ.

Today all Israelites are Jews and all Jews are Israelites.

You seem to be very confused on what Premillennial/dispensational theology teaches about Israel

[William Terrell]

If those Israelites dispersed throughout the Assyrian Kingdom they would have been taken over by the Babylonians who in turn were taken over by the Persians. Over time, they would have been considered to be Jews as were those taken captive a hundred years later. Many probably returned to Palestine, or intermarried with the local populations, losing their Israelite identity over time.

The Israelites were not dispersed through the Assyrian kingdom. They were placed with other peoples at the norther border of Assyria to act as a buffer.

Their stay there was at least 200 years, 8 generations. Even with any attrition the bulk thereof returning to Palestine would have pushed the region way over its count of 500,000.

Where is there indication the the Babylonians conquered the Assyrians, and when did that happen?

"Many" returned to Palestine? Where did the rest go, if, as you say "many" returned to Palestine?

And where do you get the foundation for this supposition?

There are a lot of conceptual problems with your theory and logic problems as well as historical problems. And, you continue to have problems with the existence of Israel as Hosea 1:10-11 predicts.

It sound as though you want the present Jews to be the sum total of God's people.

Why?

Actually, God's Plan is laid out very clearly in Scripture.

Where?

And no one is claiming that it is only limite to the remnants of Judah.

Who else, then, specifically, in the numbers required by Hosea?

What we are claiming is that all people from all 12 tribes are present in the world and we call them Jews.

Not near enough of them. And they are diminishing with so many marrying nonJews.

There is no separate group called 'Israelites'.

That's your statement.

In 1Cor.10:32, Paul says give no offense to three different groups of people, Jews, Gentiles and Church. Had a 4th existed known as Israelites, he would have included them as well.

1Cor. 10:32 Give none offense, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

Of course, the vast portion of Israelites were comprehended in the "church of God", because they were of the church of God. Dig?

These were the people that Jesus sent the disciples to minister to. Remember your Bible?

Actually the Jews are jealous, of the salvation of the gentiles (Rom.11:11) and that jealously leads some to salvation.

That may have been those Jews. I'm talking about these Jews.

When the fullness of the Gentiles enters into salvation, then the church will be removed (rapture) and God will again start dealing with the Jew directly-all 12 tribes (Rev.7).

All 12 tribes would have to be here, wouldn't they. In numbers deserving of being called "the sands of the sea", right? Will they magically appear in those numbers then?

Please cite the specific wording of the scripture that lead you to the conclusion above.

Until then, the Jew is under the curse of Deut.28, being dispersed and dispised.

The Jews, that is, Judah, whose lineage gave us the Christ, and who refused to acknowledge Him. The other Israelites are not included.

But the Christian is suppose to protect him even though he is an enemy of the Gospel, he is still beloved for the father's sake (Rom.11:28)

You are correct. God will make good His promise to the Israelites. Hosea predicts it.

I have no idea what you are talking about in this paragraph.

I said, "I would think the Jews would, as a practical matter, be relieved, having so many brothers under the covenant to be with them in their travails. You seem to be happy to see them go it alone."

You deny that there are great numbers of Israelites in the world willing to stand by their brothers under the covenant. There are few Jews and their number are diminishing. Yet, you passionately argue for their isolation and among the worlds peoples.

I argue for there being a multitude of brothers to stand with them.

Well, no one is isolating Judah.

You are.

The Jew is everywhere, and is considered a Jew no matter what tribe.

There are a few in this country and a few in that, and has been historically so. And a number in Israel. Few in the world.

Now what does Jim Jone have to do with anything?

An example of a few nutjobs in every population. You really didn't understand my example?

British-Israelism is simply nonsense and so are your comments.

Well, sez you. If God's plan according to Hosea was to bring vast number of the children of Israel together with the children of Judah, there must first be vast numbers of the children of Israel. A very logical and simple way for God to realize His plan would be to disperse all His people into nations composed of His people, then at the Hosea point, reveal to them their identity.

Well, if you can't show that the tribes had migrated then the view is built on a very shakey foundation!

I did. It's very simple. Israel were given by God over to the Assyrians for their sins. The Assyrians put the mass of men women and children that was Israel on its norther border to as as a buffer. With Israel were other peoples in that position. After a couple hundred years Israel allied with those others managed to whip Assyria and get loose. They then in their mass of tribes moved north toward Turkey.

There are thousands of translated Assyrian tablets in the British museum. Some of the tablets clearly showed impressed drawing of Israelite priests. Where there are priests, there are men women and children. Some of those tablets were identified as coming from Assyrian outposts north of Assyria after the final conflict.

Sparse as this evidence is, it does establishes a presence and a vector. I think this is more than you have.

God did not break any promise with Israel.

If He wiped them out, He certainly did.

They are dispersed now but will be regathered and reunited into a Millennial Kingdom under the Lord Jesus Christ.

I agree. But "dispersed" may also mean composed of, which is the only way the numbers required can be there.

Today all Israelites are Jews and all Jews are Israelites.

You keep saying that, but with no evidence historical or logical.

I can only come tot he conclusion that this is what you want to believe.