Obviously, our Lord is telling of multiple events that will take place at different time periods. For example, verse 2; “I tell you the truth, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.” Here, I think Jesus is foretelling the Roman destruction of the temple. {70 A.D. ??} It should be safe to conclude this chapter covers a wide range of history.
Let’s look at the verses you have cited: 29 “Immediately after the distress of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken. 30 At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.”
Sounds frightening enough. Jesus follows with the fig tree lesson. Then He assures us His Words will never pass away. Time for some more prophecy:
36”No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.
42 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.
Oh-oh, Something’s wrong here? The Son of Man will come at an hour I do not expect? If I see great tribulation, the sun and moon darkened, stars “falling” etc. Let me assure you, I will be expecting my Master’s return at any minute.
When non-believers witness this, will they really be “eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage” and be living without a clue?
Who are “all the nations of the earth” that will mourn when His “sign” appears? It can’t be us, because we would not mourn, we would be relieved and happy at His appearing.
This is barely a beginning of the many reasons we believe there will be a “rapture”. I certainly don’t claim to speak for the many different variants of this teaching.
Is the point of your post to persuade us your point is correct? You may be, for I can never claim to be anything more than a simple student. Have you considered that some of us once believed as you do? With our present limitations, there will always be some things we don’t understand. There will always be some pieces of the “puzzle” that don’t seem to fit. For me, I am able to fit many more pieces with the “rapture” theory.
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“For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.”
“Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth.”
And as you say, the 2nd coming of Jesus will be known to all...It won't be a mystery and 'all' eyes (the entire world) will see him...
In the pre-tribulation rapture, only Christians will see Jesus...
While the rapture of the church is clearly manifest in the bible, there are religious groups that claim they can't find it there...I can only assume that God has blinded them to the fact since it is so cleary attested to in the word of God...
And then many Christians can see the rapture in the scripture but they claim it is at the end of the tribulation period...
What most people don't consider is that there is more than one resurrection spoken of in the bible...
In the book of the end times, God says 'come up hither' three different times...But then people get hung up on this verse:
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
To those people the rapture is at the end of the tribulation...
But as any farmer knows, there are 3 'pickings' when it comes to the harvest...When the tomatos start getting ripe, you rush out and pick the first ripe ones among the green...You pick the firstfruits...
In the peak of the season, you go out and get the main harvest...But, there will yet be some left that are not ready to pick...At the end of the season, after the main harvest is sold, or put up for the winter, you go out and get those last few that have become ripe before the frost hits...Those are the gleanings...And they are all the First resurrection...All are Christians...
The first resurrection of God's believers has three parts to it...There will be a pre-tribulation rapture, AND there will be a post tribulation rapture...
And what if the pre-tribulation rapture wasn't revealed until the 1800s??? So what??? I have no doubt that some things that will happen in the future have yet to be revealed...
“keeping you from the hour” can also be translated from the greek term for “from” as “in the midst of.”
believers don’t suffer divine wrath. they may suffer however persecution. there is a huge difference between suffering divine wrath and suffering due to persecution.
That statement is true, no matter what your Christian religious affiliation is.
I really don’t see how Matthew 24:29-3l refutes the pre-trib rapture. Before we micro examine any verse, shouldn’t we take the context into account, i.e. the entire 24th {and some of the 25th} chapter?
Matt.24:29 tells us that there will be two tribulations, the first is that of Satan, Immediately after the tribulation of those days....That is the one Christians must be concerned about as he is coming after us (he already has the others):
Rev.12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
That is one of the verses in which God tells us we will be here to experience that tribulation. ...If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of His indignation....(Rev.14:9-10). When Jesus arrives, at the 7th trump, His 2nd Advent, it is the time of His wrath but He isn't angry at His children, those that didn't fall for Satan's deceit and waited for the true Christ. We have nothing to fear from Him.
Labette, you wrote: Obviously, our Lord is telling of multiple events that will take place at different time periods. For example, verse 2; “I tell you the truth, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.” Here, I think Jesus is foretelling the Roman destruction of the temple. {70 A.D. ??} It should be safe to conclude this chapter covers a wide range of history.
Many agree with you, in that Jesus was speaking about the event of 70AD but I don't think the gravity of that chapter could possibly mean that. He is telling his disciples about the end of the world, not just what would happen to that one small spot, no matter how important it was. Also there are still stones standing at the wailing wall. To me, the belief in 70AD being the time He was speaking of is part of, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Oh-oh, Something’s wrong here? The Son of Man will come at an hour I do not expect? If I see great tribulation, the sun and moon darkened, stars “falling” etc. Let me assure you, I will be expecting my Master’s return at any minute.....When non-believers witness this, will they really be “eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage” and be living without a clue?
It is my belief that the "great tribulation" is that of Satan, of his lies and deceit. He is the anti-christ, which was mistranslated and should be "instead of Christ". Many, actually most, will fall for his lies because they won't know he is an imposter. His tribulation will be one of peace and prosperity (playing like he is the Lamb). That is why the tribulation is so great (Matt.24:21). The "stars" that are falling are the fallen angels who return with Satan. The "eating, drinking and giving in marriage" is reference to how it was in the days of Noah when the fallen angels were "marrying" daughters of Adam. It isn't non-believers but believers, Christians, that will be the first to be "taken" by his deceit.
Who are “all the nations of the earth” that will mourn when His “sign” appears? It can’t be us, because we would not mourn, we would be relieved and happy at His appearing.
Would you mourn if you, who love Christ and followed Him all your life, suddenly realized you have been worshipping the imposter, the anti-christ, Satan. You wouldn't realize that until the true Christ appears and then it would be too late to change. That is what the great apostasy is about. What would make a true Christian change who they worship? Nothing - it is done with deceit but that will not be an excuse as God warns us many times in His letter and tells us what will happen. That is why the rapture doctrine is very dangerous. Many are being taught they will be taken away and do not study the warnings He wrote to us.
So...those that do not follow anti-christ will be, as you say, relieved and happy at His coming, the others will not.
“For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.”...“Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth.”
We will not suffer wrath as we are His children but the condition is that we stay true to Jesus Christ and "endure patiently" through the deception of Satan in his tribulation. His Word keeps us from Satan's "hour" and as the verse you quoted states - "that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth
CA Conservative you said: So you are of the opinion that God will have his Bride suffer His Wrath along with the unbelievers of the world?
We will not suffer if we stay true and it will be very difficult. In speaking of Satan's tribulation, his hour, Jesus said, And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved; but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. "No flesh saved", meaning, most men will follow Satan.
You are mistaking those “taken away” in Mt. 24 with the rapture. The ones taken away are not “raptured,” they are swept away in the fury of God’s wrath. Read that portion of scripture carefully without the blinders of Pre-tribulationism.
Actually, I believe in Matthew 24 Jesus was speaking of the end of the age, not the end of the world.
“This” means this and not “that.”
“You” means you and not “they.”
And “very soon” means very soon.
Therefore, “this generation” was the generation that He was speaking to. And it was that generation that He was speaking to that saw the destruction of the Temple and Jeruselem and the end of the Age.
All who saw that destruction, including “those who pierced Him,” knew that He was the Christ, that He was the Temple, and that His kingdom would never be destroyed.