Posted on 07/07/2007 7:48:37 PM PDT by tnarg
Mark it down as biblical truth: There is no pre-tribulation rapture.
However, untold thousands believe in the "secret rapture of the church" prior to the tribulation period. This is because untold thousands don't want to have to think of suffering through a tribulation time frame. The late Corrie ten Boom called this pre-trib rapture teaching the "American doctrine." Go figure.
The belief in a secret rapture of believers before the tribulation is also because of a best-seller, "The Late, Great Planet Earth," by Hal Lindsey which was set loose in the l960s. It has been a paperback aggressively pushed by practically every evangelical / fundamentalist engine going.
Theologians, videos, films and preachers bolster up this myth with their earnest preachings and teachings.
Yet this is nothing but a myth, accented as much by certain theologically conservative Protestant segments similar unto the Roman Catholic underlining of the immaculate conception of Mary. Nevertheless, if there is no biblical support for such a Mariology teaching, it is bogus. Likewise, the pre-tribulation rapture teaching is bogus.
The pre-trib rapture concept was manufactured in the 1800s in an 18 year old Plymouth Brethren girl's dream, told to her Pastor, John Darby, and then relayed to C. I. Scofield who bought into the dream as revealed truth. Scofield placed this pre-tribulation rapture notion as a footnote in his popular Bible, hence the spread of the myth.
However, just the opposite is biblical truth. In Matthew 24:29-3l, for instance, the rapture ("gathering together") is placed in the same time frame as the open second coming of Jesus Christ. And all of this is "after the tribulation" (verse 29). That is it in a nutshell!
Yet pre-tribulation rapturists sidestep this clear passage for more oblique passages. The latter are twisted and turned in order to fit into the "American doctrine." Yet such twisting is not sound exegesis. And for biblically-riveted evangelicals and fundamentalists to commit this drastic error is bordering on the horrific.
All other passages in Scripture relating to the "gathering together unto Him" must refer back to the literal time line provided by Jesus in Matthew 24.
One must not use a symbolic passage in the Book of Revelation or any other symbolically-based section of the Bible by which to draw a pre-tribulation rapture doctrine.
Further, one must not take words of the apostle Paul so as to insert them opportunistically into a conjured pre-tribulation string of Scripture references. Yet this has been done ad infinitum.
Instead, Jesus' literalism of Matthew 24 must be used as the benchmark for all other "gathering together" themes of Scripture.
One starts with literalism and moves into symbolism when seeking to understand Scripture; it is not the other way around.
During the 1970s and 1980s there was much written and preached about a pre-tribulation rapture. This has wound down some in the last decade or so. Why?
Today, with the world situation being what it is, there is not that much risk-taking in preaching dogmatically the pre-tribulation rapture. Why?
Is it because there are many who are beginning to question its validity? Is it because the world state is so uncertain that to go out on a limb with a false hope may ricochet?
One wonders, with world events progressively becoming more and more anti-Christian, why the pre-tribulation rapture persons are not celebrating each dawn as the day when Jesus may return to earth.
Such is not the phenomenon on a large scale. Furthermore, it may be because the next generation has not bought into this notion.
In any case, it is a myth, a legend of conservative Protestantism's own conjuring and has no base in the Holy Scriptures.
Yet these very Protestants are the ones who ardently point out the myths of Catholicism while holding to some of their own myths. Both segments of Christendom need to do some serious housecleaning of manufactured legends in order to return to the simple Bible truths; otherwise, the church suffers from severe lack of knowledge.
What is so frightening about holding to a pre-tribulation rapture? It is more than mere academic quibbling. Holding to such a notion is drastically weakening the church worldwide.
The church should be preparing for spiritual battle against the most evil forces arrayed by hell.
Instead, the church is languishing with a false hope. This is all orchestrated by the demonic powers in order to eventuate in a limp army of believers. And to see that through in this age of laxity in religion does not take much on the part of the dark powers. In addition, the apostate segment of religion is doing its fair share of blackening truth.
Does it take much intelligence to realize that there are awesomely wretched days yet ahead for the righteous remnant?
Those who are not strong will drop--fall away, as biblically predicted. They will be too numerous to contemplate. But for those who are truly into carrying the daily cross there will be nothing able to thwart their zeal for Christ.
Already the remnant is being strengthened by the Spirit of light. He is gathering His own together in the power of the resurrection and the might of the revealed Word. There numbers are few; but their ardor before the Father is lovingly honored.
Set your vision upon the difficulties yet to be. They are but the trials permitted by the coming Christ.
At the close of the tribulation period, then there will be the gathering together of the believers from the four corners of the earth. They will greet Jesus in the clouds as He descends through space, having left the right hand of the Father in heaven.
The gathering together ("rapture") and the second advent then will be realized as one and the same event occurring at the end of the tribulation time frame. Jesus' declaration in Matthew 24:29-3l states it clearly.
The House of Israel refers to the Nothern tribes, not the House of Judah.
So according to your definition they shouldn't be called 'Jews' since that only refers to the House of Judah.
Since the separation of the Kingdom, the House of Israel always refers to the 10 tribes, not to the House of Judah.
All of Israel was present when the Lord returned, not just the Southern tribes.
You are a very confused person.
http://www.carm.org/shepherds_chapel.htm
Why are you so interested in knowing what religion or what church anyone belongs to? Not that I'm accusing you of this but some that are unable to defend their position biblically resort to trying to rip apart where another person gets their beliefs. Catholics vs Protestants, Muslims vs Christians, etc.
Shouldn't you be able to refute what a person states about the Bible by using the Bible? If one is correct on an issue they should be able to show how and why they are correct by using scripture.
No one asked your religious affiliation, nor do I care. I will listen to what you say about the scriptures to prove your point and hope you would do the same.
I've been down the road you are trying to lead me on and will never go again. It should be sufficient to you to know that I am a Christian so rather than trying to attack where someone gets their beliefs wouldn't it make more sense to attack the beliefs if you think them wrong?
They never migrated, they were dispersed.
This article was originally about the rapture doctrine and has somehow become stuck on the tribes. I personally think you have lost on both counts but would be happen to continue on both subjects.
Yes they were dispersed and then they migrated.
What you are talking about is mere fantasy, not biblical fact.
You have been buried in biblical fact and don't recognize it.
No, the author doesn't claim that every British Israelite is antisemitic, only that it can lead that by assuming that God is now blessing the Gentile (who are the 'real' lost tribes.
I don't agree with what you think the author said.
I posted an article explaining what British Israelites teach.
No, you posted an article that someone who disagrees with them teaches.
Now there may be differences between particular groups,but in general, there is a view that the 10 tribes are 'lost' and have become some other race.....That is simply nonsense.
I NEVER said the 10 lost tribes have become any other race.
They became the three different families because the DNA code was in their genes.
No they didn't. I gave you the answer but you don't see it.
And the Children of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob haven't become anyone else, they are Jews, Israelites, Hebrews, heirs to the Covenant Promises of God.
Yes, you are correct and that is what we have been saying. Some are Jews, all are Israelites - all of the 12 tribes.
Another Temple will be built since the sacrifices will start again (Dan.8:11-12, Mt.24:15, Rev.11:2)
Daniel 8:11 tells us the daily sacrifice will be taken away because when the anti-christ is here most will believe he is Christ, so communion is no longer given to Christ (it's taken away) but given to anti-christ.
Matthew 24:15 tells us that the anti-christ will stand in Jerusalem, in the Holy place, (Dome of the Rock), pretending to be Christ and it is then the end of days.
Revelation 11:2 Here we pick up the subject in vs. 1 where it states the "reed like a rod" was given to the angel. A side note in my Companion Bible states that, "This measuring reed is like a sceptre, and measures for destruction, not for building". So...the temple (their place of worship) will be destroyed.
My belief is that the 3 references you have given are about the end of days and where the anti-christ will be and that is in Jerusalem at their place of worship, which would be the Dome of the Rock. At least, that is what I believe.
"I don't understand why you say that. They are the same 12 named in the Bible.:....Well, then they must still be in existance since they are returned....So, where do you think they are now?
Yes they are still in existence and will be joined with the house of Judah. I believe they are the Christian nations of today (my belief as It isn't written, as far as I know).
All the tribes are represented under the general term 'Jew' as it was used in the New Testament, when Christ was called the King of the Jews.....Do you think He is only King of the Southern tribes!
He is King of all, including King of the Jews and King of Israel.
John 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto Him, "Rabbi, Thou art the Son of God; Thou art the King of Israel."
When was the last time you saw someone live to over 900 years old?
I don't know what that has to do with anything. I do believe people lived to that age but what does living a long time have to do with one man and woman having 3 different races in their sons?
Oh, another run to Strongs!
If you want to understand you should try it.
And what is the 'deep' significance of this 'fact'that you think you have found in the Bible that the Jews and Israelites are two different people.
They are not different people, they are the same family but God separates them as the "house of Judah" and the "house of Israel". Both are God's chosen people.
by the way, you state that you are a Christian. I assume that to mean you believe in the Trinity?
I don't have an official version of the Trinity. I believe in the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. I truly have never given that much thought to it, except to find it a confusing concept at times. It is enough for me to know they ARE.
Why are you so interested in knowing what religion or what church anyone belongs to? Not that I'm accusing you of this but some that are unable to defend their position biblically resort to trying to rip apart where another person gets their beliefs. Catholics vs Protestants, Muslims vs Christians, etc. Shouldn't you be able to refute what a person states about the Bible by using the Bible? If one is correct on an issue they should be able to show how and why they are correct by using scripture.
You are not using the Bible, you are distorting the Bible and running to Strongs to get a definition to fit your preconceived doctrine.
Strong's definitions are not the final authority since they are not entirely accurate and Strong himself was an apostate involved in the ASV publication, which uses many of his false definitions.
No one asked your religious affiliation, nor do I care. I will listen to what you say about the scriptures to prove your point and hope you would do the same.
I will listen to an honest person, but you are clearly hiding what you believe.
Mr. Murray teaches a number of heresies, including British Israelism, so it is important to know if you are following his teaching to get a true picture of your theological context.
I've been down the road you are trying to lead me on and will never go again. It should be sufficient to you to know that I am a Christian so rather than trying to attack where someone gets their beliefs wouldn't it make more sense to attack the beliefs if you think them wrong?
You are not a Christian if you deny the Trinity and embrace an heretical view of it (modalism)
They never migrated, they were dispersed. This article was originally about the rapture doctrine and has somehow become stuck on the tribes. I personally think you have lost on both counts but would be happen to continue on both subjects. Yes they were dispersed and then they migrated.
And what proof do you have that they migrated?
Zero!
[ What you are talking about is mere fantasy, not biblical fact. ]
You have been buried in biblical fact and don't recognize it.
No, what you and your partner have been sprouting is hot air, not Biblical fact.
[ No, the author doesn't claim that every British Israelite is antisemitic, only that it can lead that by assuming that God is now blessing the Gentile (who are the 'real' lost tribes. ]
I don't agree with what you think the author said. P> Fine, show from the article that the author states that all British Israelites are anti-semetic.
[ I posted an article explaining what British Israelites teach. ]
, No, you posted an article that someone who disagrees with them teaches.
Yes, he disagrees with what they teach, but explains what they teach and their errors.
[ Now there may be differences between particular groups,but in general, there is a view that the 10 tribes are 'lost' and have become some other race.....That is simply nonsense. ]
I NEVER said the 10 lost tribes have become any other race.
Well, if they migrated, then where and who are they?
[ They became the three different families because the DNA code was in their genes. ]
No they didn't. I gave you the answer but you don't see it.
You didn't give me an answer, you have no answers, only conjectures.
[ And the Children of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob haven't become anyone else, they are Jews, Israelites, Hebrews, heirs to the Covenant Promises of God. ]
Yes, you are correct and that is what we have been saying. Some are Jews, all are Israelites - all of the 12 tribes.
The Jews are Israelites and the Israelites are Jews.
[ Another Temple will be built since the sacrifices will start again (Dan.8:11-12, Mt.24:15, Rev.11:2) ]
Daniel 8:11 tells us the daily sacrifice will be taken away because when the anti-christ is here most will believe he is Christ, so communion is no longer given to Christ (it's taken away) but given to anti-christ. Matthew 24:15 tells us that the anti-christ will stand in Jerusalem, in the Holy place, (Dome of the Rock), pretending to be Christ and it is then the end of days. Revelation 11:2 Here we pick up the subject in vs. 1 where it states the "reed like a rod" was given to the angel. A side note in my Companion Bible states that, "This measuring reed is like a sceptre, and measures for destruction, not for building". So...the temple (their place of worship) will be destroyed. My belief is that the 3 references you have given are about the end of days and where the anti-christ will be and that is in Jerusalem at their place of worship, which would be the Dome of the Rock. At least, that is what I believe.
There you go denying the Scriptures again.
2Thess.2 states that the Anti-Christ sits in a Temple and for the sacrifices begin again there has to be another Jewish Temple for them to be in.
And I note that you are using Bullinger, just like your teacher Murry does.
Bullinger believed in 'soul sleep' do you believe in that to?
[ "I don't understand why you say that. They are the same 12 named in the Bible.:....Well, then they must still be in existance since they are returned....So, where do you think they are now? ]
Yes they are still in existence and will be joined with the house of Judah. I believe they are the Christian nations of today (my belief as It isn't written, as far as I know).
Bingo.
Finally, you are exposed!
Saying that lost 10 tribes are the Christian nations are today is British-Israelism.
[ All the tribes are represented under the general term 'Jew' as it was used in the New Testament, when Christ was called the King of the Jews.....Do you think He is only King of the Southern tribes! ]
He is King of all, including King of the Jews and King of Israel. John 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto Him, "Rabbi, Thou art the Son of God; Thou art the King of Israel."
That is correct, Christ is ruler over all of the 12 tribes of Israel.
That is what His title of being King of the Jews means.
[ When was the last time you saw someone live to over 900 years old? ]
I don't know what that has to do with anything. I do believe people lived to that age but what does living a long time have to do with one man and woman having 3 different races in their sons? ]
Well, if that is possible, why is not possible for God to have the DNA arranged so that can happen?
That is where the three races came from, Noah and his three sons.
Where do you think they came from?
[ Oh, another run to Strongs! ]
If you want to understand you should try it.
Strongs doesn't explain anything and many of his definitions are flawed and incomplete.
Strong's is for people who want to rewrite the Bible to meet their own theological views.
[ And what is the 'deep' significance of this 'fact'that you think you have found in the Bible that the Jews and Israelites are two different people. ]
They are not different people, they are the same family but God separates them as the "house of Judah" and the "house of Israel". Both are God's chosen people.
Yes, they are considered two different Houses, and the House of Israel was present at Pentacost when Peter addressed them as such (Acts.2:36).
Which means that they are also considered Jews, since it was the Jews who Paul said killed Christ,(1Thess.2:14-15) both Houses, not just Judea.
[ by the way, you state that you are a Christian. I assume that to mean you believe in the Trinity? ]
I don't have an official version of the Trinity. I believe in the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. I truly have never given that much thought to it, except to find it a confusing concept at times. It is enough for me to know they ARE.
Well, I can understand being confused by it, but your teacher, Andrew Murray teaches a heresy known as modalism, which is that there is one God, performing three different functions.
There are in fact, three persons, who share one God essence.(Mt.28:19)
We believe that the New Covenant was made with Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-34; Hebrews 8:8-12) which meant Israel was to become Christian and that Jesus confirmed that Covenant (Galations 3:16-17; Romans 15:8).
We believe that after Christ’s death and resurrection Israel was to be called by a new name (Isaiah 62:2). Israel was not to be remembered by her old name (Hosea 2:17); and, the new name was to be the Lord’s Name (II Chronicles 7:14) which would be CHRISTIAN (Christ man) (Acts 11:26; I Peter 4:16).
http://www.shepherdschapel.com/statement2.htm
The Trinity or Godhead
I teach YHVH (”I Am That I Am” and Hebrew for the Sacred Name of God), Yahshua (Hebrew for God’s Saviour Jesus) and the Holy Spirit. When you speak the Truth it is the Holy Spirit manifesting Himself through you. Matthew 10:20 explicitly says “For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.” The meaning, of course, refers to the Holy Spirit as in Mark 13:11 which notes, “but when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do you premeditate; but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye; for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost (Spirit).” I make no apology for teaching the Godhead in this manner, and I certainly do not need an endorsement or approval or further interpretation of my words from any man or group of research witch hunters.
http://www.shepherdschapel.com/answers.htm
British Israelism - Murray’s British Israelite theology is somewhat different from standard British Israelism. Murray teaches, as do most British Israelites, that the people of Anglo-Saxon descent are the physical descendents of “the same tribes [i.e., the northern ten tribes of Israel] that later went north and populated Europe and North America.”24 Contrary to some of these teachers, however, Murray traces the different races to Adamic creation in the book of Genesis. He claims that the British Israelites were the Adam created in Genesis 2, while the other, inferior races were the first Adam created in Genesis 1.25
http://www.watchman.org/profile/murraypro.htm
Take some time and cool off FTD. I would also suggest that you spend as much time researching what we've been talking about as you are digging up other things.
By the way, just a quick note, when I said:
I don't have an official version of the Trinity. I believe in the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. I truly have never given that much thought to it, except to find it a confusing concept at times. It is enough for me to know they ARE.
That is exactly what I meant. It doesn't matter to me what any church teaches on that subject - not because I agree or disagree with them it's just that there is so much to learn, so many things I want to know and I don't care how any church tries to fit the Trinity into their doctrine. As I said, it is enough for me to know that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are real. Stop trying to make something more out of it.
I'll be back Wed. night or Thursday and we can continue this then if you wish but I would suggest that you keep the subject on Biblical things, not church doctrine, not other people, not other beliefs. I'm not interested in them at all. I gave that up a long time ago and decided to learn about our Father and His Son and the Holy Spirit. How about you?
Have a nice time.
Take some time and cool off FTD. I would also suggest that you spend as much time researching what we've been talking about as you are digging up other things.
Well, I am just fine, thank you.
I know it takes some time to get to the truth, but I think I am finally finding out what you really believe, but won't say.
By the way, just a quick note, when I said: I don't have an official version of the Trinity. I believe in the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. I truly have never given that much thought to it, except to find it a confusing concept at times. It is enough for me to know they ARE. That is exactly what I meant. It doesn't matter to me what any church teaches on that subject - not because I agree or disagree with them it's just that there is so much to learn, so many things I want to know and I don't care how any church tries to fit the Trinity into their doctrine. As I said, it is enough for me to know that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are real. Stop trying to make something more out of it.
The Trinity is a crucial doctrine for the Christian.
So, someone who claims to be Christian cannot just 'blow it off'.
You cannot be saved unless you understand that the Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God (1Jn.5:10)
Now, if you believe that Israel has become the Christian nations, you are teaching British Israel ism, no matter how much you want to deny it.
Israel has not become anything else but is now mixed with among the Jews, a term synonymous with both groups.
I'll be back Wed. night or Thursday and we can continue this then if you wish but I would suggest that you keep the subject on Biblical things, not church doctrine, not other people, not other beliefs. I'm not interested in them at all. I gave that up a long time ago and decided to learn about our Father and His Son and the Holy Spirit. How about you?
Well, clearly, since you have adopted his (Murry's) methodology of running to Strong's to reinterpret what the Bible actually says in English so it is fair to try understand your own theological background.
You are very hesitant to explain what you actually believe, and who are studying under, which indicates that you are trying to cover it up.
So, if you are studying under the Shepherd's Chapal, we can cut to the chase very quickly on what you believe or if you disagree with what they teach, you can point that out as well.
A Christian should be clear in what they believe and be able to give a reason for the faith that he has, not play word games and hide and seek.
I asked you about Soul sleep and if you believe in that.
Do you believe in Annihalistism of Souls as well, that there is no eternal torment for the damned?
Pre-existance of Souls?
You are not interested in the truth. You are only interested in your theology....which by the way, appears to be in error. I really don't know what organization you belong to....but I would imagine it is something Protestant. In other words....."Catholic lite".
I am not familiar with Ping's religious affiliation ....nor do I care. The fact that she understands that Jacob had Twelve sons.....and one of them is the progenitor of the Jews (Judah) tells me that she is about 15 million light years ahead of you when it comes to Biblical comprehension.
I have given you scripture after scripture which you have twisted to fit your own doctrinal error. I am now of the belief that your contention is something other than genuine theological disagreement. I am of the belief that there is something sinister in your continual badgering of Ping about her religious beliefs and I think you should probably look at the log in your own eye.
You have still not answered my question from post #204 where I requested you show us all that the Northern Kingdom was ever called Jewish. I know that you cannot do this as it exists nowhere in scripture.....so, if you cannot come up with some scripture that tells us that the Nation of Israel and the Nation of Judah were not separate entities.....and were not known by separate names.....this conversation is over.
Oh sure.....you can respond with all your silly little Protestant innuendo....but when you can show me that the Northern Kingdom of Israel was ever referred to in Scripture as Jewish.....we're done! Basically, I'm getting bored!
By the way......I don't have any religious affiliation other that New Testament Christianity....something evidently foreign to your beliefs.
I win!
Party line:
Joseph is dead. He was devoured by a wild beast (swallowed up by Assyrians, history, Jews, whatever).
What you know:
Joseph is still alive.
Yes he is!
You are not interested in the truth. You are only interested in your theology....which by the way, appears to be in error. I really don't know what organization you belong to....but I would imagine it is something Protestant. In other words....."Catholic lite".
I am an Independent Baptist.
I don't hide my religious affilation.
I am not familiar with Ping's religious affiliation ....nor do I care. The fact that she understands that Jacob had Twelve sons.....and one of them is the progenitor of the Jews (Judah) tells me that she is about 15 million light years ahead of you when it comes to Biblical comprehension.
Really?
She has stated that the other 10 tribes became the 'Christian' nations, showing she is British-Israelite, something you have denied being.
Now, everyone knows that Judah became the chief tribe of the Southern Kingdom and was referred to as the 'Jews'.
Very 'profound' and 'deep'.
The question was what became of the Israelites who did were not dispersed with the Assryians.
The answer is that they to became known as Jews so the term and Jew and Israelite are synomous terms referring to all the 12 tribes, not just Judah.
I have given you scripture after scripture which you have twisted to fit your own doctrinal error. I am now of the belief that your contention is something other than genuine theological disagreement. I am of the belief that there is something sinister in your continual badgering of Ping about her religious beliefs and I think you should probably look at the log in your own eye.
I simply asked who she was studying under.
What are two ashamed of?
One thing you can tell about cultists, they always want to remain secretive.
You haven't dealt with the scripture, you have twisted them by trying to make them say what you want to say.
Now, as I asked Ping who she studied under, I am asking you also, do you study under Pastor Murray?
You have still not answered my question from post #204 where I requested you show us all that the Northern Kingdom was ever called Jewish. I know that you cannot do this as it exists nowhere in scripture.....so, if you cannot come up with some scripture that tells us that the Nation of Israel and the Nation of Judah were not separate entities.....and were not known by separate names.....this conversation is over.
I showed you that the Northern Kingdom, the House of Israel was indeed called Jews, since Peter refers to them in Acts 2:36 as killing the Lord.
Since it was the Jews who killed the Lord, we know that Peter is referring to those who originally came from the Northern tribes as Jews as well.
Oh sure.....you can respond with all your silly little Protestant innuendo....but when you can show me that the Northern Kingdom of Israel was ever referred to in Scripture as Jewish.....we're done! Basically, I'm getting bored!
No, what you mean is that now that you and Ping have been exposed you are going to run and hide and pop out again at some later date to spread your heretical nonsense.
By the way......I don't have any religious affiliation other that New Testament Christianity....something evidently foreign to your beliefs.
Really?
You don't belong to any church, in violation of scripture (Heb.10:25)?
Why I am not surprised.
I win!
What you've won is exposure as a fraud and liar.
The Jews today are all of the 12 tribes of Israel.
Discuss the issues all you want. Do not make it personal!
That's O.K., go ahead and lash out. As a Baptist I'm sure you are constantly being corrected when it comes to the Word of God. Get it off your chest.
Now, as I asked Ping who she studied under, I am asking you also, do you study under Pastor Murray?
This is really funny. Until you began mentioning this guy....I had never heard of him.
I win!
I am not being personal, I am simply saying that your theology is a fraud and you are lying about it.
When someone wants to hide what they believe, you know they have something to hide.
That's O.K., go ahead and lash out. As a Baptist I'm sure you are constantly being corrected when it comes to the Word of God. Get it off your chest.
Well, when you actually deal with the word of God let me know, I will still be here.
Baptists like to discuss what the Bible says, not what someone imagines it says.
Now, as I asked Ping who she studied under, I am asking you also, do you study under Pastor Murray?
Now, why would I, a Baptist, study under Pastor Murray, is he a Baptist?
This is really funny. Until you began mentioning this guy....I had never heard of him.
Well, it seems that Ping has.
So you came up with the nonsense you are posting all by yourself-very impressive!
I win!
Yes, you win the prize for posting a non-biblical doctrine.
Have you figured out yet who the House of Israel stands for? (Zech 8:13)
The House of Israel is the Northern Kingdom and they are referred to as Jews in the New Testament-so I guess you really lose but since you are under strong delusion, you keep telling yourself that you really a winner-loser.
LOL!
You called me a liar! That is being personal.
When someone wants to hide what they believe, you know they have something to hide.
What exactly is it that you think I'm hiding?
Now, why would I, a Baptist, study under Pastor Murray, is he a Baptist?
This has been one of your problems all along during this thread. You evidently don't read the posts thoroughly. I did not ask you this question:Now, as I asked Ping who she studied under, I am asking you also, do you study under Pastor Murray? You asked it of me earlier and I was responding to your query when I said this in post #256: This is really funny. Until you began mentioning this guy....I had never heard of him.
I don't know pastor Murray....or reverend Murray....or whatever he calls himself. I learned about him from you.
Have you figured out yet who the House of Israel stands for? (Zech 8:13
[Zechariah 8:13] And it shall come to pass, that as ye were a curse among the heathen, O house of Judah, and house of Israel; so will I save you, and ye shall be a blessing: fear not, but let your hands be strong. I've known all along who the House of Israel is and what they stand for. Why do you think Zechariah is distinguishing between the two kingdoms, yet here in the end times?
So you came up with the nonsense you are posting all by yourself-very impressive!
I've been doing Bible study for quite some time....on my own. I started in about 1954 and really never stopped. I still have much to learn and I'm sure The Lord will continue to guide me.....but I have learned one very obvious thing in my studies. Catholics, Protestants and Baptists don't have a clue when it comes to biblical history. You've pretty much shown everyone that that's the case.
I win! Ping said so...... and so did "Thinkin'Gal"
I called you a fraud and a liar.
Your theology is a fraud and you are lying about it.
I am referring to your statements on this forum, not you personally.
[ When someone wants to hide what they believe, you know they have something to hide. ]
What exactly is it that you think I'm hiding?
What you actually believe.
I ask you who are the Israelites if they are not the Jews.
I finally got it out of Ping, that it was the 'Christian nations'
So, she admitted to being a 'British-Israelite.
I am waiting for you to come clean as well.
[ Now, why would I, a Baptist, study under Pastor Murray, is he a Baptist? ]
This has been one of your problems all along during this thread. You evidently don't read the posts thoroughly. I did not ask you this question:Now, as I asked Ping who she studied under, I am asking you also, do you study under Pastor Murray? You asked it of me earlier and I was responding to your query when I said this in post #256:
Actually, I am wondering if you are sane.
Here is the question you asked me, [ Now, as I asked Ping who she studied under, I am asking you also, do you study under Pastor Murray? ]
And I answered,
Why would a Baptist study under Pastor Murray if he is not a Baptist?
This is really funny. Until you began mentioning this guy....I had never heard of him. I don't know pastor Murray....or reverend Murray....or whatever he calls himself. I learned about him from you.
And did I say otherwise?
I asked you if that was whom you were studying under.
You said you didn't know him, alright I take your word for it.
<[ Have you figured out yet who the House of Israel stands for? (Zech 8:13)]
[Zechariah 8:13] And it shall come to pass, that as ye were a curse among the heathen, O house of Judah, and house of Israel; so will I save you, and ye shall be a blessing: fear not, but let your hands be strong.]
I've known all along who the House of Israel is and what they stand for. Why do you think Zechariah is distinguishing between the two kingdoms, yet here in the end times?
The House of Israel is the Northern Kingdom.
We are not discussing Zechariah, we are discussing the fact that the Northern Kingdom is the called the House of Israel.
The reason that it is being talked about in Zechariah, because the Lord is going to reunite the two Houses under the coming Davidic Kingdom of the Lord Jesus Christ-King of the Jews.
Now,you said the Northern Kingdom are never called Jews in the New Testament.
Well, they are since they are referred to as the House of Israel by Peter and they killed their Lord.(Acts.2:36)
You will note that the nations that the House of Israel were dispersed to in the Assyrian dispersion are mentioned in the first couple of verses.
So who killed the Lord?
The Jews,(1Thes.2:14) both houses, the House of Israel and the House of Judea.
Thus, both Houses are considered to be Jewish Houses.
[ So you came up with the nonsense you are posting all by yourself-very impressive! ]
I've been doing Bible study for quite some time....on my own. I started in about 1954 and really never stopped. I still have much to learn and I'm sure The Lord will continue to guide me.....but I have learned one very obvious thing in my studies. Catholics, Protestants and Baptists don't have a clue when it comes to biblical history. You've pretty much shown everyone that that's the case.
Well, I haven't seen any sign of Bible knowledge on your part.
I've seen alot of repeating of heretical nonsense that was put out a century ago and refuted back then.
So, I take it you have no theological affiliation.
[ I win! Ping said so...... and so did "Thinkin'Gal" ]
Well Ping has admitted to being British-Israelite so her opinion is really worthless.
I haven't seen anything 'Thinkin Gal' has posted so I will take your word that she has 'drank the kool aid' with you.
But once again, your thesis that the Northern Tribes are never considered to be Jews has been destroyed.
Clearly, you aren't able to refute it.
So you lose.
Better do so more Bible study and actually study the Bible, not Strong's.
On this I owe you an apology.
I went back and found that I had incorrectly recopied the question I asked you as if you were asking me the same thing.
Typing too fast on my part.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.